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Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

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Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#111

Post by xwolfi »

almost_usual wrote: post #33
vivekpandian wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No use in trying to discuss this anyone from China. They are totally brainwashed. In Spite of, living in USA and enjoying democracy, and free of speech, they think freedom of speech is myth and democracy is not a reliable form of government. They believe that Winnie, the pooh is great and he and CCP is solely responsible for lifting millions of Chinese people from poverty. I really feel pity for the Chinese people.

There are comments on HN right now where people are questioning whether freedom of speech is good in the US by US citizens. Why would someone from China think it’s working after the shit show of 2020 and our own citizens not having confidence?

I'll be blunt, I was raised in a european democracy and live in China, I don't think democracy works anymore lol Trump is a big component, but the Brexit or what they do in Hungary, pff it's just disheartening.

I don't think China will forever sustain that large a monitoring, it's just inefficient the closer they get from an intellectual super power, but I have 0 respect for the US, or their "freedom of being an idiot" that they pretend is the same as freedom of speech.

One thing is sure, with that circus over there, they made us lose 10 years here. Nobody wants to experiment anymore with liberalization.

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#112

Post by axguscbklp »

underseacables wrote: post #32
seattle_spring wrote: post #22

I work with a lot of folks from China and they are bending over backwards trying to defend the CCP. Their argument almost always boils down to "I know people who live in Xinjiang and they say it's not that bad." Equivalent to someone using their one black friend as proof that they can't possibly be racist.

You cannot trust anything reported out of China, absolutely nothing. I do not doubt that there are people being slaughtered and massacred as I write, but anything reported out of China must be taken deeply suspicious, especially if it comes from the government. The Chinese government is the single greatest threat to freedom, and human rights this world has ever seen.

>The Chinese government is the single greatest threat to freedom, and human rights this world has ever seen.

How so? Its ability to expand its control beyond its current reach is pretty limited. It is surrounded by the lands and military forces of Russia, India, and the US and its client states like Japan and South Korea.

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#113

Post by brundolf »

JBiserkov wrote: post #104
brundolf wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world would have done nothing about Hitler if he hadn't started invading the rest of Europe [1]. And the CCP is smart enough to focus on economic domination instead of land-war. This is my greatest fear for humanity right now. [1] https://www.historyextra.com/period/20th-century/britain-ado... Edit: Why would this get downvoted? Do you disagree with the interpretation of history (and extrapolation to our current…

>This is my greatest fear for humanity right now. Not Climate chaos/disaster, ecological+societal collapse, pollution?! Micro-plastics? Nukes? Hello?

Climate change is the other big one, but given two different sources of great future suffering and dystopia, the one that's rooted in premeditated evil in the heart of man is much more distressing to me than the one that's rooted in stupidity and negligence (not that there are no evil parties benefiting from climate change, but malice upsets me more than greed).

But those are just my personal feelings; there's no ranking tragedies, really, and I feel equally powerless against all of them anyway. So take your pick on which one you're going to lose the most sleep over.

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#114

Post by yellowapple »

newacct583 wrote: post #52
underseacables wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot trust anything reported out of China, absolutely nothing. I do not doubt that there are people being slaughtered and massacred as I write, but anything reported out of China must be taken deeply suspicious, especially if it comes from the government. The Chinese government is the single greatest threat to freedom, and human rights this world has ever seen.

The... single greatest? Not the great empire builders? Not the USSR? Modern China, really? Not even, y'know, the ancient chinese empires who subjugated most of asia? The PRC? I mean, just objectively modern chinese citizens, while they certainly don't live under western-level protection for expression, are (owing just to technology and nothing less) vastly more able to share their opinions widely and securely than...…

> Not the great empire builders?

They haven't been a threat for centuries.

> Not the USSR?

The USSR's been dead for 3 decades now.

> Not even, y'know, the ancient chinese empires who subjugated most of asia?

They don't exist anymore, either.

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#115

Post by yellowapple »

JBiserkov wrote: post #104
brundolf wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world would have done nothing about Hitler if he hadn't started invading the rest of Europe [1]. And the CCP is smart enough to focus on economic domination instead of land-war. This is my greatest fear for humanity right now. [1] https://www.historyextra.com/period/20th-century/britain-ado... Edit: Why would this get downvoted? Do you disagree with the interpretation of history (and extrapolation to our current…

>This is my greatest fear for humanity right now. Not Climate chaos/disaster, ecological+societal collapse, pollution?! Micro-plastics? Nukes? Hello?

> Not Climate chaos/disaster, ecological+societal collapse, pollution?! Micro-plastics?

China's the leading driver of these things right now, by miles.

> Nukes?

You don't think nuclear-armed superpowers (like, say, China, Russia, and the US) butting heads might, you know, contribute to nukes being a danger in the first place? Or indeed, contribute to nukes being stockpiled in the first place?

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#116

Post by tourist_ »

cambalache wrote: post #36
42_ wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standard of evidence for a country with free press cannot and should not be compared to the standard of evidence for a country with no press freedom. China controls flow of information so tightly, that even rumours should be considered credible unless proven otherwise.

Free press is a nebulous concept, especially considering that for all but the most naive or disingenuous person the mass media press is an indirect tool of the intelligence services of each country. > China controls flow of information so tightly, that even rumours should be considered credible unless proven otherwise. You could say exactly the same about the military occupation of every country, or are we getting th…

I am also not Chinese, American or European, but I will say that prejudice is totally warranted against authoritarian regimes. Free press simply refers to an ability to present an opposing view point, which authoritarian governments despise.

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#117

Post by yellowapple »

fileyfood500 wrote: post #83
_-david-_ wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people did not know about the Holocaust until after WW2 started.

FDR/senior government and military officials in the US army knew. They made choices to focus on American interests at multiple points, even as they closed on victory on the European front, they prioritized strategic targets over concentration camps. The USSR ended up being the one to free most of the camps, and conquer most of Germany. Strategic targets are definitely important for protecting soldiers, but really the…

> they prioritized strategic targets over concentration camps.

Well yeah, that's just Winning Wars 101. If the decision is between "let's knock out these strategic targets so that we can end the war quickly and (assuming we know about them) shut down the concentration camps all at once" v. "let's get bogged down by starting with the concentration camps while the enemy continues to churn out arms and war machines and troops because we couldn't be assed to focus on the strategic targets", the former is really the only reasonable choice.

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#118

Post by mannerheim »

seattle_spring wrote: post #22

I work with a lot of folks from China and they are bending over backwards trying to defend the CCP. Their argument almost always boils down to "I know people who live in Xinjiang and they say it's not that bad." Equivalent to someone using their one black friend as proof that they can't possibly be racist.

Are their friends who live in Xinjiang Han or Uyghur?

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#119

Post by _-david-_ »

Bakary wrote: post #101
_-david-_ wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a group of people's values are disgusting enough they support enslaving and steralizing people they should have western values pushed onto them.

I don't agree with the parent comment's perspective, but isn't it deeply ironic to make this statement?

By 'this statement' do you mean mine or the person I was responding to?

Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide

#120

Post by neolog »

fileyfood500 wrote: post #83
_-david-_ wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people did not know about the Holocaust until after WW2 started.

FDR/senior government and military officials in the US army knew. They made choices to focus on American interests at multiple points, even as they closed on victory on the European front, they prioritized strategic targets over concentration camps. The USSR ended up being the one to free most of the camps, and conquer most of Germany. Strategic targets are definitely important for protecting soldiers, but really the…

> FDR/senior government and military officials in the US army knew.

I'd be interested to see the source material for that.

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