PDF of the legal opinion
https://14ee1ae3-14ee-4012-91cf-a6a3b7dc3d8b.usrfiles.com/ug...
from https://www.glanlaw.org/single-post/legal-opinion-concludes-...
This is the single most dodgy looking url I've ever shared.
Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide
51–60 of 322 posts
Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide
#52I work with a lot of folks from China and they are bending over backwards trying to defend the CCP. Their argument almost always boils down to "I know people who live in Xinjiang and they say it's not that bad." Equivalent to someone using their one black friend as proof that they can't possibly be racist.
You cannot trust anything reported out of China, absolutely nothing. I do not doubt that there are people being slaughtered and massacred as I write, but anything reported out of China must be taken deeply suspicious, especially if it comes from the government. The Chinese government is the single greatest threat to freedom, and human rights this world has ever seen.
The... single greatest? Not the great empire builders? Not the USSR? Modern China, really? Not even, y'know, the ancient chinese empires who subjugated most of asia? The PRC?
I mean, just objectively modern chinese citizens, while they certainly don't live under western-level protection for expression, are (owing just to technology and nothing less) vastly more able to share their opinions widely and securely than... pretty much anyone under a totalitarian regime at any other time in history.
I mean really: a Xinjiang dissident in the modern world can get messages out reliably and promptly about what is happening, including video documentation even. Even in the 1980's life in, say, Bulgaria or Uzbekistan was completely invisible even to intelligence agencies.
I don't doubt that China does some terrible things. But this hyperbole isn't helping anyone.
Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide
#53PDF of the legal opinion https://14ee1ae3-14ee-4012-91cf-a6a3b7dc3d8b.usrfiles.com/ug... from https://www.glanlaw.org/single-post/legal-opinion-concludes-... This is the single most dodgy looking url I've ever shared.
FWIW, usrfiles.com seems to be a CDN associated with wix.com. glanlaw.org has DNS registered with wix, so I expect they're hosting there too.
Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide
#54I work with a lot of folks from China and they are bending over backwards trying to defend the CCP. Their argument almost always boils down to "I know people who live in Xinjiang and they say it's not that bad." Equivalent to someone using their one black friend as proof that they can't possibly be racist.
There were a whole series of posts on HN, and other sites by folks who talked about people traveling in the area and not seeing anything.
I don't know what that is supposed to mean / why we would assume you'd notice it ...
On HN and elsewhere people mentioned how they were happy people could travel through the area and not have to worry about "thieves" and they'd make some comparisons to travel in the west, a sort of chilling random concern considering the topic.
Often the same link was posted to a western blogger apparently paid to travel to the region. With the link the posts noted that the blogger didn't mention genocide.
Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
No use in trying to discuss this anyone from China. They are totally brainwashed. In Spite of, living in USA and enjoying democracy, and free of speech, they think freedom of speech is myth and democracy is not a reliable form of government. They believe that Winnie, the pooh is great and he and CCP is solely responsible for lifting millions of Chinese people from poverty. I really feel pity for the Chinese people.
There are comments on HN right now where people are questioning whether freedom of speech is good in the US by US citizens. Why would someone from China think it’s working after the shit show of 2020 and our own citizens not having confidence?
Yup. Currently live in Asia and many of the less-than-democratic countries are pointing to the US media coverage and saying "see! freedom of speech is dangerous, even the Americans agree. when we restrict your speech we're just trying to keep you safe."
Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide
#56The word 'genocide' is a little tricky, it kind of implies death-camps, at least in the popular imagination, I mean, the first basis of comparison I think for most of us is the Nazi Holocaust.
A note below talked about the DoJ's concerns about 'proving genocide' etc. - it's besides the point.
If they are putting 1M people in jail due to their ethnicity and doing this crazy psychological programming, it's bad enough, the 'forced sterilization' and 'removal of children' is a very serious thing as well, but that doesn't need to happen for this to be 'very very bad'.
We might need to use a different word to describe this, that fits a little more directly to what is happening.
If China was not powerful, there would be trade sanctions, if not embargoes, which is something to consider.
The issue needs to be addressed, it steps beyond the CCP's usual arguments of 'internal problems are not your business'.
Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide
#57I had no idea genocide included destroying a culture without killing the people who belong to it. Eg. by adoption, sterilization, indoctrination, punishment for practicing it, etc. Genocide seems like a misleading word here when typical cases are population-scale killings. But if that's the definition the UK government uses, then they have to be consistent.
Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide
#58[flagged]
While I agree, there are plenty of poor sources getting too much uncritical attention in the press, even by China's own accounts there are a large network of education facilities, trying to hammer in a strong sense of national identity. It is hard not to interpret this as a direct assault on the culture of Uighur people. It shouls also be viewed in it's geopolitical context - China is desparate to have secure land ro…
[deleted]
Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide
#59[flagged]
We know for a fact most of what is going on, it's not well hidden.
The CCP will give guided tours of their concentration camps to try to prove they are not concentration camps.
Pulling out prisoners, in jail against their will, who say on camera: "I am here for my own good, I am happy".
It's bizarre and frightening.
Re: Uighurs: 'Credible case' China carrying out genocide
#60[flagged]
> The fact that China has been pretty open about investigators coming to see whats going on Could you substantiate this? How many international journalist teams were allowed into China?
The press is literally invited to see much of what is happening. [1]
It just scratches the surface.