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Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

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Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#421

Post by mrb »

autocorr wrote: post #390
roter wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I checked your numbers against [0]. Road distance NY -> SF = 2900 miles [1]. Model S mileage is 290Wh/mi [2]. That is 840kW for Tesla against 657kW for a single transaction. This is all order-of-magnitude stuff but... wow. [0] https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption/ [1] https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=road%20distance%20san%... [2] https://www.zeviecars.com/browse-cars/tesla-model-s

Can someone explain how transactions are not insanely cost prohibitive for Bitcoin with power consumption figures like those? Those numbers would suggest something like >20 USD. Is it because most transactions in practice actually happen internally on exchanges that avoid putting every individual transaction on the blockchain? I have limited knowledge of Bitcoin so maybe not quite "explain like I'm five"... but close…

«Can someone explain how transactions are not insanely cost prohibitive»

Because the comments above yours are misleading. Transactions don't consume mining energy. Miners expend the same amount of energy regardless if they are validating 1 or 1000 transactions in a block.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#422

Post by sandworm101 »

buzzerbetrayed wrote: post #389
sandworm101 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are obligated to shareholders. But i am not a shareholder. I am a gamer who wants to buy a new graphics card. So i am going to scream, boycot and lobby government against them until the needs of thier shareholders bend a little closer to those of thier consumers. Free speech is a necessary part of a free market. Maybe nvidia should be held responsible for thier products. Anyone else up to support a law imposing…

> So i am going to scream, boycot and lobby government against them until the needs of thier shareholders bend a little closer to those of thier consumers This line of thinking scares me. It’s basically saying “they aren’t doing what I want so let’s use the government to make them do what I want!” How is this freedom? Forcing people to bend to your will though government is the opposite of freedom, and should be used…

Unlike certain politicians, i do not consider publicly traded corporations to be "people". I dont really care about thier feelings, even thier rights. Corporations are a legal fiction created for a specific purpose, not persons with emotions.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#423

Post by christoph »

hobofan wrote: post #407
deepakhj wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The link shows paying in btc because they don’t give you what you mine. You rent your hash rate and people bid on it with btc. You’re not mining btc directly. I use NiceHash at the moment. Your gpu mines ethereum (or whatever the most profitable coin is as NiceHash has a profit switcher.)

Could you explain to me why someone would offer their hashing power on NiceHash vs. just directly working for a pool? The main cases I image are: 1. The miner doesn't want to deal with price fluctuations and wants to prevent arbitrage risk 2. It might be more profitable to outsource smallish coins that have to buy hashing power to stabilize their network (though that would probably also be covered by the profit switc…

Weirdly I can somewhat answer this as I’ve just got into NiceHash since this Friday night, mainly as a learning experience more than a money making endeavour. I have a load of my own company PCs with GPUs like 1080s and 2070s we used to rent for VR usage at events that have basically been sitting in boxes, idle for the last 12 months due to COVID. No idea how I ended up down the mining rabbit hole on a Friday night, maybe a comment here...

Anyway, I now have six machines set up in my (previously... freezing cold garage), generating around £20 to £25 day total, after electricity costs. I’m on a metered power supply that is much cheaper at nighttime.

The benefits of NiceHash are:

- super simple set up. Literally an installer, it benchmarks the machine and gets to work in minutes. They have their own OS as well. That’s a rabbit hole for a few evenings this week to have some fun with.

- mobile app for monitoring all your rigs - temperatures, profitability, etc.

- pretty decent web front end for tracking progress, crypto prices, rig stats, etc.

- automatic switching between the most profitable algorithms in real-time. If the market are paying money for a specific currency/algo, it will swap to where the money can be made quickly and automatically without you needing to be involved.

- easy to disable specific algorithms that don’t work well. First day it kept jumping to KawPow, but for me this was really poor for profitability on my hardware, so it’s literally a click to disable that algorithm in their software.

I guess it just works, is largely set and forget, but offers lots of tweaking, monitoring for those with the desire to do that. Is it the most efficient or profitable? I’m starting to think not, but I’m still at the bottom of the curve for all of this, however, NiceHash has provided the perfect springboard into a new (to me) world.

BTW, I am fairly anti crypto in general. I’m kind of doing this as a learning experience while I have some free hours to burn each week on learning about something I feel I should know a lot more about while having a bit of fun in the process.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#424

Post by arcticbull »

mrb wrote: post #421
autocorr wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone explain how transactions are not insanely cost prohibitive for Bitcoin with power consumption figures like those? Those numbers would suggest something like >20 USD. Is it because most transactions in practice actually happen internally on exchanges that avoid putting every individual transaction on the blockchain? I have limited knowledge of Bitcoin so maybe not quite "explain like I'm five"... but close…

« Can someone explain how transactions are not insanely cost prohibitive » Because the comments above yours are misleading. Transactions don't consume mining energy. Miners expend the same amount of energy regardless if they are validating 1 or 1000 transactions in a block.

That’s some high class mental gymnastics though. Because if you divide the energy spent across the number of transactions you land back where you started. And if the energy was burned for 0 transaction capacity then the underlying would be worthless. Secure but worthless. So it doesn’t take much inference to realize that the value is in transactbility.

You’ll have to explain to me why when mining a block of transactions, it doesn’t make sense to break that down on a per transaction basis with division.

If the number of transactions in a block ever changes I’ll change my divisor. Until then the proof is on you isn’t it?

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#425

Post by pantalaimon »

namibj wrote: post #201
R0b0t1 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heat is bad, but MTTF at usually achievable temperatures is hundreds or thousands of years. Electromigration matters on the order of 100 years.

Well, tell that to my chipset's SATA controllers (Sandbridge generation). Intel messed up their life expectancy calculations, and thus they died after 2~3 years. I think 2 are still alive.

The Sandy Bridge SATA issue did make big waves back then and Intel did a recall IIRC.

Only the B2 stepping of chipsets should be affected by this tough.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/4142/intel-discovers-bug-in-6...

https://techreport.com/news/20326/intel-finds-flaw-in-sandy-...

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#426

Post by hobofan »

christoph wrote: post #423
hobofan wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain to me why someone would offer their hashing power on NiceHash vs. just directly working for a pool? The main cases I image are: 1. The miner doesn't want to deal with price fluctuations and wants to prevent arbitrage risk 2. It might be more profitable to outsource smallish coins that have to buy hashing power to stabilize their network (though that would probably also be covered by the profit switc…

Weirdly I can somewhat answer this as I’ve just got into NiceHash since this Friday night, mainly as a learning experience more than a money making endeavour. I have a load of my own company PCs with GPUs like 1080s and 2070s we used to rent for VR usage at events that have basically been sitting in boxes, idle for the last 12 months due to COVID. No idea how I ended up down the mining rabbit hole on a Friday night,…

Thanks for explaining! I would have assumed that there are some cross-coin mining pools out there that have a similarly good UX, where you would end up with the mined coins directly, but it kind of makes sense that it exists on that abstraction level.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#427

Post by megameter »

bserge wrote: post #367
nitrogen wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bit of survivor bias. I used to buy truckloads of old PCs and recycle them when I was a teenager. I initially thought that this old tech was just really built to last, but in reality I was selecting the 1% or less that could survive being shoved around a rat-feces-infested warehouse at freezing temperatures before ending up in my parents' garage, to their dismay. Those survivors seemed to last freaking forev…

Haha, I also noticed that used parts that lasted ~2-4 years have a lower failure rate than new ones. All the ones that fail, fail early, and the surviving ones go through a sort of "extended burn-in" so to say.

I have a longstanding habit of buying my laptops refurbished - so, a few months of wear and sometimes a "scratch and dent". To date, every one of them has been a winner on longevity.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#428

Post by kergonath »

WanderPanda wrote: post #353
kergonath wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I see what you mean, but natural law is something else entirely. Under that framework, maximising profit for the few at the expense of the rest of society is unjust. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_law

Ah didn‘t know that, thanks! (was translating literally from german)

There’s a bit more here, also interesting: https://acoup.blog/2019/12/12/collections-a-trip-through-cic...

We could use a revival of these ideas (which were the foundation of the enlightenment) in our era of blasé cynicism.

Then, if I understood, your point goes back to “might makes right”, as in, we have the power, we might as well take the money, and to hell with long term prospects or society. It is unfortunate that these people have so much influence over the rest of us. It is also a demonstration that optimising private interests does not result in public good, that is, the invisible hand of the market is utter bollocks.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#429

Post by paulgb »

mrb wrote: post #421
autocorr wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone explain how transactions are not insanely cost prohibitive for Bitcoin with power consumption figures like those? Those numbers would suggest something like >20 USD. Is it because most transactions in practice actually happen internally on exchanges that avoid putting every individual transaction on the blockchain? I have limited knowledge of Bitcoin so maybe not quite "explain like I'm five"... but close…

« Can someone explain how transactions are not insanely cost prohibitive » Because the comments above yours are misleading. Transactions don't consume mining energy. Miners expend the same amount of energy regardless if they are validating 1 or 1000 transactions in a block.

> Miners expend the same amount of energy regardless if they are validating 1 or 1000 transactions in a block.

This ignores the transaction fees. Even though they are only 10-20% of the total fees a miner collects, 10-20% of a round-trip from SF to NYC is still a lot of energy.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#430

Post by paulsutter »

arcticbull wrote: post #242
pornel wrote: post #4

I have no sympathy for miners, but purely from software freedom perspective this is maximally evil: closed-source software that decides what you can use your hardware for. The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.

> The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste. Like literally every other piece of Bitcoin or crypto mining technology. It’s straight to the landfill every 6 months. Bitcoin generates 100 GRAMS of ewaste for every transaction. Every 2 transactions consumes as much energy as driving a Tesla from SF to NY [edit for…

Bitcoin transactions use almost no power. Bitcoin SECURITY uses an immense amount of power, in order to make a 51% attack difficult.

I'm not saying that's a good thing, I'm just saying its not the transactions that use power.

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