Earlier quoted context omitted.
Oh, if you are going to include manmade space-related objects there have been many deaths. Dig into how many Chinese rocket stages have landed on villages. If we include such things as "aviation" I would retract my above statements re debris. Rockets do sometimes fall on people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelsat_708 https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/11/china-keeps-dropping... "It has happened many times befor…
Why compare two sovereign nations with vastly different safety regulations?
United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine
461–470 of 483 posts
Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine
#462Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not luck. Design. These failures are anticipated. That they can be handled so well is testimony to the energy and regulation put into engine safety over decades. Whereas once such failures could down an airline, killing all on board, they can now be handled safely.
> These failures are anticipated Sort of. The possibility of some types of failure is anticipated in the design of other parts of the engine. But there are also inspection procedures in place to ensure that engine parts that might fail are replaced before they fail. A report on a previous incident in Feb 2018 (referred to upthread) says that the root cause was a cracked engine fan blade that should have been detected…
(A380 "blade off" test, rare footage of giant engine failing)
Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine
#463Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine
#464Earlier quoted context omitted.
Radar Controllers and Radar Associates are just staffing positions. Some background information to build on… An Air Traffic Controller's job title when they start out is Air Traffic Control Specialist. An Air Traffic Control Specialist starts out in the AG pay band (Academy Graduate). When that Controller gets certifications, they move up to the D1 pay band (Developmental), then to D2, D3, and when they get all of th…
What expertise is it that ATC folks build up in all of those years of training? Is it knowledge of plane behavior by model, familiarity with the region, radar behavior? Or is the majority of it the less tangible “getting a feel for the flow of traffic to instinctively pick out unusual behavior”?
Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine
#465Earlier quoted context omitted.
Radar Controllers and Radar Associates are just staffing positions. Some background information to build on… An Air Traffic Controller's job title when they start out is Air Traffic Control Specialist. An Air Traffic Control Specialist starts out in the AG pay band (Academy Graduate). When that Controller gets certifications, they move up to the D1 pay band (Developmental), then to D2, D3, and when they get all of th…
What expertise is it that ATC folks build up in all of those years of training? Is it knowledge of plane behavior by model, familiarity with the region, radar behavior? Or is the majority of it the less tangible “getting a feel for the flow of traffic to instinctively pick out unusual behavior”?
Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine
#466Earlier quoted context omitted.
Radar Controllers and Radar Associates are just staffing positions. Some background information to build on… An Air Traffic Controller's job title when they start out is Air Traffic Control Specialist. An Air Traffic Control Specialist starts out in the AG pay band (Academy Graduate). When that Controller gets certifications, they move up to the D1 pay band (Developmental), then to D2, D3, and when they get all of th…
What expertise is it that ATC folks build up in all of those years of training? Is it knowledge of plane behavior by model, familiarity with the region, radar behavior? Or is the majority of it the less tangible “getting a feel for the flow of traffic to instinctively pick out unusual behavior”?
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All of the above.
Whenever an Air Traffic Controller transfers to a new facility, or even transfers to a new specialty within a facility, they have to train and get certified on all of the new sectors. Each sector is different due to traffic flow, types of traffic, equipment limitations, etc.
For the Houston Center Ocean specialty, equipment familiarization is very important for Controllers. There are 5 sectors: Ocean West, Ocean East, Offshore West, Offshore Central, and Offshore East. Ocean West and East deal primarily with aircraft flying between the United States and Mexico. There are different airways that aircraft can take, and each one has different characteristics (crossing airways, airways defined by RNAV fixes vs bearings off of VORTACs, radio coverage, and radar coverage).
In the Offshore sectors, radio coverage is harder to manage. There are multiple transmitters and receivers that are located on different offshore platforms, and the ocean elements and weather can affect the equipment. At our positions next to the radar scopes, there are touchscreens with many different buttons to select which frequencies we want to monitor, transmit on, use primary or backup sites, etc. Most sectors do not have to toggle between different transmitters, but in the Offshore sectors, that's a common occurrence. There are also different transmitter sites for the Ocean sectors, so we commonly get pilots saying that they're losing us on the radio when we are talking to another aircraft a hundred miles away, and we can hear the pilot just fine.
In the Ocean sectors, radar doesn't cover the middle of the Gulf of Mexico, so we have to rely on aircraft position reports unless they have ADS-B.
At HCF Center, there are mountains which block radar coverage, so it's good to know where we can expect to lose or establish radar contact with aircraft.
Yes, there is an element of becoming familiar with the routine traffic. You see many of the same flights every day, so you know where they are going. It got to the point at HCF Center, where if someone told me a flight number, I could tell them the departure and destination airports without looking.
However, just like pilots, Air Traffic Controllers cannot let routine turn into complacency. We can never just assume anything, if we are unsure, we have to ask or restate something. Safety is our number one priority.
The views expressed here are my own and not necessarily those of the FAA.
Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine
#467Almost identical incident happened 3 years ago - the same type (B777-200), the same engine (PW4077), the same operator (United Airlines), the same side (right engine), the same failure (unconfined engine failure). https://avherald.com/h?article=4b4e8ca7&opt=0 I would not be surprised if the whole fleet of this type/engine gets grounded for some time.
Also, the same destination: Honolulu. And only 1 digit difference in registration number (N773UA in 2018 vs N772UA in 2021).
Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine
#468Earlier quoted context omitted.
> These failures are anticipated Sort of. The possibility of some types of failure is anticipated in the design of other parts of the engine. But there are also inspection procedures in place to ensure that engine parts that might fail are replaced before they fail. A report on a previous incident in Feb 2018 (referred to upthread) says that the root cause was a cracked engine fan blade that should have been detected…
fan blade failures are expected. Engines are designed to contain failed blades. There is a huge test that is done whereby a blade is "failed" at full throttle. Engine dies but damage is to be contained. https://youtu.be/j973645y5AA (A380 "blade off" test, rare footage of giant engine failing)
Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine
#469Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine
#470Earlier quoted context omitted.
You write the software to detect and be resilient in the face of hardware failure.
If there is only one sensor, how do you know it’s reporting wrong data?