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New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

academictimes.com

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Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#241

Post by DenisM »

oblio wrote: post #192
shawnz wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Littering/dumping is a much different issue than disposing of your waste through the wrong channel. The problem you are describing isn't because people use the garbage instead of the recycling.

If we only had paper bags and such, littering wouldn't be a problem. Single use plastics of any kind need to be banned universally. Pseudo multiple use plastic such as bags needs to be taxed like alcohol and tobacco, through the roof, until alternatives become economically viable.

We would also have torn handles, pants-staining leaks, groceries spilled across the parking lot, double and triple bagging, and so on. In fact we already have all of these problems thanks to the ham-fisted paper bag laws.

I would be more amenable to the idea if they made a bag that does not get torn (e.g. armor the paper with cotton or bamboo thread), and is leak-resistant (e.g. waxed), but that somehow takes the back seat.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#242

Post by dTal »

sjg007 wrote: post #207
dTal wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe you can live on top of a landfill; it's too toxic. In fact I don't think you can even build housing on the site of a former landfill.

Clearly you've never heard of Foster City! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foster_City,_California

That's "landfill" in the sense of raising the ground level, not in the sense of "dumping trash", which is what we're talking about.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#243

Post by [deleted] »

sjg007 wrote: post #207
dTal wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe you can live on top of a landfill; it's too toxic. In fact I don't think you can even build housing on the site of a former landfill.

Clearly you've never heard of Foster City! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foster_City,_California

[deleted]

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#244

Post by eggsmediumrare »

systemvoltage wrote: post #173
eggsmediumrare wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are running out of land. I don't disagree with your point that landfill space isn't "a problem." But if you zoom out and look at inefficient land use more generally (like fields for feed corn), you find that there is for all intents and purposes no nature left in many of the places we occupy.

If we are fine with Cemeteries in extremely valuable land in major city centers, I’m fine with a square mile landfill in Oklahoma.

Cemeteries are also an incredibly inefficient use of space.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#245

Post by eggsmediumrare »

DenisM wrote: post #233
eggsmediumrare wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are running out of land. I don't disagree with your point that landfill space isn't "a problem." But if you zoom out and look at inefficient land use more generally (like fields for feed corn), you find that there is for all intents and purposes no nature left in many of the places we occupy.

A landfill 1x1x1 km can contain the entire waste the US produces in 3 years. A small patch of land 100x100 km has enough space to keep trash for 30,000 years. https://www.epa.gov/facts-and-figures-about-materials-waste-...

I'm not disputing that landfills aren't really a big deal, I'm disputing the claim that we aren't running out of space.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#246

Post by [deleted] »

neltnerb wrote: post #182
127 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard composting PLA is pretty bad for the environment as it produces a lot of methane, which is much worse greenhouse gas compared to CO2. It also seems PLA doesn't degrade in landfills. It requires a built to purpose composting facility.

It contaminates compost if you put PLA into a regular composter. It requires a special industrial compost facility to handle it and most aren't. So it's trash. If you put PLA in the recycling bin it is making sorting even worse because if you get a bit of PLA mixed in with your other plastic it's not going to be good. So it's definitely not even slightly recyclable. So it's trash. PLA is trash. Unless you have an ind…

[deleted]

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#247

Post by itsrhettbutler »

eggsmediumrare wrote: post #167
DenisM wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The countries which are the most preoccupied with recycling plastics, such as the US, are also the least likely to throw they trash into the ocean. Plastic bags do no harm buried in the landfill, and we’re not running out of land.

We are running out of land. I don't disagree with your point that landfill space isn't "a problem." But if you zoom out and look at inefficient land use more generally (like fields for feed corn), you find that there is for all intents and purposes no nature left in many of the places we occupy.

Ever look at satellite images of coastal cities, such as LA or the greater NYC region? Turn off all map and road labels so it’s just a view of land use and cities just look like a giant concrete mass sprawling hundreds of miles. Now view over Nevada or other major flatland, desolate regions. 2x2 miles of landfill wouldn’t even be visible from the same altitude view. I believe ground water and aquifers are near non-existent in many western areas too so we wouldn’t have to fret about ground water contamination.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#248

Post by oblio »

DenisM wrote: post #241
oblio wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we only had paper bags and such, littering wouldn't be a problem. Single use plastics of any kind need to be banned universally. Pseudo multiple use plastic such as bags needs to be taxed like alcohol and tobacco, through the roof, until alternatives become economically viable.

We would also have torn handles, pants-staining leaks, groceries spilled across the parking lot, double and triple bagging, and so on. In fact we already have all of these problems thanks to the ham-fisted paper bag laws. I would be more amenable to the idea if they made a bag that does not get torn (e.g. armor the paper with cotton or bamboo thread), and is leak-resistant (e.g. waxed), but that somehow takes the bac…

Well, to your paragraph: oh, the humanity! Will someone think of petty conveniences?!?

You do know that we're creating country sized plastic patches in the middle of the Pacific, microplastics are everywhere and we're eating them, they're slowly changing us in ways we don't even understand, etc, etc?

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#249

Post by beowulfey »

DenisM wrote: post #237
beowulfey wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming that we can keep burying it forever is not a healthy attitude. People used to assume that dumping sewage in the streets was just fine, but it led to cholera outbreaks [1]. There was no push to change that until it became a major problem and something had to be done. Sure, we can assume burying plastic will be a solution forever. But is it not better to avoid risking the event where it suddenly is a problem,…

> Assuming that we can keep burying it forever is not a healthy attitude. Yes it is. Just because some decision made in the past is wrong doesn't mean a different decision made in the present is also wrong. There is no harm to landfill, and we know it quite well by now.

It isn’t about being right or wrong. It is about sustainability and foresight. Yes, landfill works now. But the population is growing and eventually the land may need to be reclaimed. It is about recognizing that excess waste now may become a problem for future generations. It is about realizing that things could, you know, maybe be done better.

Dumping our trash in the ground is lazy and I just don't understand how anyone wants to defend it.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#250

Post by madacol »

Semaphor wrote: post #148
JulianMorrison wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution, bags-wise, is reusable bags. I carry around several of the convenient, pack-into-a-ball variety. They're plastic, but they'll last me many many uses. When they eventually wear out, they should probably be incinerated. But in the meantime, I'm using plastic's advantage, it's long life, in my favour - rather than having it haunt me as waste.

Cloth bags are even better. I can put them into the washing machine if they are dirty, they can be easily stored and so far (I have and use some of both types that are over 10 years old) none of them degraded.

Will you reuse it a thousand times?. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/grocery-bag-environmental...
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