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Second Citizenships, Residencies, and/or Temporary Relocation

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231–240 of 309 posts

Re: Second Citizenships, Residencies, and/or Temporary Relocation

#231
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha, I'm literally looking into the same thing as well. Somehow I was never informed that me and my kids are eligible. Its supposedly somewhat easier because because my mother is an Italian citizen and living. But I didn't want to have to travel somewhere either. I did read something about how you can get it done quickly while in Italy. I'm kicking myself having missed the chance to do that while I was there a couple…

I haven't looked at it for a while because we've just been holed up at home, but I seem to recall that the biggest PITA was having to do some kind of language test, and you can only do that via approved places. I speak the language fluently, so it's not a worry, just a hassle, but if you don't speak it well, you probably ought to brush up. Also: requirements may differ for different situations - I am married to an It…

Yes, that's what I understand too. I believe since I have a direct blood relation that neither me nor my kids would need to do those tests but my wife would. But I wasn't sure if I would need to visit the consulate. Definitely tricky to pull off these days.

Looks like you lived in Padova for quite some time. I was there for 6 months or so back in 2003. Would love to visit again. My family there is mostly in Milano but from Cuneo and Sardegna. :)

Re: Second Citizenships, Residencies, and/or Temporary Relocation

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

55k and 75k yearly pre-tax, but as a PhD student and recent graduate we expect to get a significant increase in a few years as I also join the industry and we both level up. But, as said by others, comparing raw numbers is pointless. Even if we spent the 2/3k that are left each month, we'd still have health insurance and pension paid for by our taxes. We aren't forced to build so much wealth to weather bad times beca…

So you're making those numbers as PhD students instead of workers? Where do I sign up? ;) What domain are you in if you don't mind me asking?

Sorry I wasn't clear, my partner is an IT consultant in a large firm and there you can earn 90k or more in senior positions (say five years in). I get 55k as a PhD student and this is mandated by law, but you can get less if you don't have teaching duties.

Re: Second Citizenships, Residencies, and/or Temporary Relocation

#233
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know about FL but for CH you do have to apply for a permit. However, if you have a job offer and an EU passport you basically just pay the fee for the permit and you’ll get it (usually for five years). And af r the five years you can either renew your work permit or apply for permanent residency. Same goes for CH nationals who want to work in the EU.

Definitely as CH takes part in the freedom of movement with EU. My comment was really about non EU+ nationals. If you get a working permit as a 3rd party national with no treaty with EU, in eg Germany, can you just move to Spain and work?

I think so, yes. At least that’s how I understand residence works: you get a residence permit for say Belgium and you can use that permit to move and go live in Portugal for instance. Not an expert and no first hand experience with this, I might be completely wrong.

Re: Second Citizenships, Residencies, and/or Temporary Relocation

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I understand of German law, all of you may have lost your German citizenship, depending on how you handled the Croatian and Swiss paperwork - Germany allows for dual citizenship at birth , however, obtaining any other citizenship means loss of German citizenship unless you have obtained a specific “Beibehaltungsgenehmigung” permit beforehand; so the German passports you have might be legally not valid if yo…

The Beibehaltungsgenehmigung is outdated in this regard. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beibehaltungsgenehmigung

Ah, okay, it does not apply for EU nations (like Croatia) and Switzerland, so it's not a worry for the OP and would matter only if other countries would be involved.

Re: Second Citizenships, Residencies, and/or Temporary Relocation

#235

> Lower taxes via relocation and dual taxation agreements Well. I have a bad news as OP's current country seems be the US.

Foreign earned income exemption prevents IRS from taxing the first $108,700 in 2021. The tax rate in Australia for first $18,000 is 0%, compared with 10-12% federal + X% state in the US so if you're a low income earner living abroad can save big on taxes.

The first $12K is normally tax free in the US too (standard deduction.)

Re: Second Citizenships, Residencies, and/or Temporary Relocation

#236
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope the kids won't mind having to declare/pay US taxes :)

Switzerland has a tax treaty with the US which avoids double-taxation. https://sigtax.com/en/switzerland-united-states-tax-treaty

Yes, most countries do so you're not double taxed. But you still need to declare, and esp. for Switzerland likely pay extra taxes to the US.

Re: Second Citizenships, Residencies, and/or Temporary Relocation

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It took several years and a good lawyer to get passed the beaucracy. Ultimately I received the Croatian passport and so did our children about half a year later. Yeah, it is always advisable to get a Croatian lawyer when applying for Croatian citizenship, for example, even if you know exactly what you are doing. Croatian law allows for loose arbitrary interpretations of the law by government servants in the bureauc…

My guess is that OP’s issue is that only one parent was Croatian so citizenship wasn’t automatic but something to apply for. Other than gathering all the paperwork, any idea what it’s like if both parents are Croatian? I understand citizenship is automatic not something that needs to be applied for?

It depends on which /Article/ OP is eligible for citizenship under, under Croatian citizenship law. The law has also been updated by our parliament in the past year. I do not want to make any assumptions about OP's situation. When applying for Croatian citizenship, it is important to explicitly state in your "biography" (Životopis) which Article you are applying under, basically as your first statement.

Many people in the diaspora abroad are eligible under Article 11, which can be relatively straightforward but with some "gotcha" tricks, that the bureaucracy will deny your citizenship over. It is vaguely mentioned in Article 11 (in Croatian), that people who emigrated abroad--or people who are direct descendants of these individuals may become citizens, with X Y Z etc. conditions listed as requirements. One "gotcha" for example, is that you have to provide documented official evidence (from at least one government source--certified, Apostilled, and translated into Croatian) that your emigrant family member permanently emigrated from former Yugoslavia. This is not explicitly mentioned as a requirement anywhere in the law. But, implicitly, based on the documentation you would be providing for your citizenship application, you would think that a government servant could determine that your family member established a life permanently outside of former Yugoslavia. The only place where I have found official information about this requirement is on one single Ministry of the Interior webpage, which is in Croatian. (You do not have to speak Croatian at all to become a citizen if you are from the diaspora.)

If you are in the diaspora abroad and your family is from Bosnia, most likely you are not eligible under Article 11, and you are instead eligible under Article 16, which is way more difficult to obtain. Article 16 is way more subjective and arbitrary too, when it comes to requirements, so you can have a tremendously hard time with the bureaucracy.

The articles of the citizenship law (translated into English) appear dubiously straightforward: https://www.refworld.org/pdfid/5ac3799f4.pdf [Note: This is not updated with this year's amendments to the law]

It is a mistake to read Croatian laws exclusively via English translations, regardless of whether they are official translations or machine translated. You miss a lot of context and detail that is needed for success. Croatian is very concise, clean, and direct (with respect to interaction/communication), in comparison to English. The grammatical cases in Croatian contain a lot of context that is missed via human translation and machine translation into English, too.

All applicants must understand that every single Croatian government servant is "thinking in Croatian" when you are interacting with them (or your application), even though their English is fine and they are fluent. When I showed up at the Croatian consulate in Los Angeles, I was told by the consul general (who is now an ambassador in a strategic location in an EU country, to establish better economic ties) that I could not become a Croatian citizen, because the family members that were emigrants were my 4 great-grandparents (I am half Croatian and I am legitimately culturally American and Croatian through my family) from Dalmatia (coastline Croatia), rather than a grandparent or a parent.

I did not expect this "news" but I had come prepared. I showed him the "family tree" I created, in Croatian. Croatian citizenship law allows direct lineal descendants of emigrants, to the third degree, to become citizens. So, he counted the generations of my family, starting with me, and determined, right then and there, that I was right and that I could become a citizen.

The Croatian consulate in LA is the friendliest of all of them, and they actually have a handout now for applying. They also recommend providing a family tree in Croatian. Anyways, it is best to always call--not email consulates: They have to respond to phone calls. Some consulates are better than others.

Page 1: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iL6ZPKgVj6XpWE8K7VlHocteW6G... Page 2: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WfhiDrg_VQRZOa6tmh-AxcucuBO...

Some people applying under Article 11 via their emigrant /parent/ have been granted citizenship within 1 month. See: https://vslavich.medium.com/how-to-obtain-croatian-citizensh...

I was granted citizenship off of my 4 great-grandparents (I only needed 1 to be eligible--but I provided full complete documentation for all 4 of them for the Croatian government) via Article 11 in 10 months. But, supposedly a lot more people are applying now during the pandemic, so now the wait is much longer.

If you make the simplest of mistakes; if you are not explicit about your requests; or if your documentation is not organized in a cohesive, easy-to-follow manner, then you are likely going to experience severe trouble. In that case, it can easily take 3-5 years, and you will need a lawyer to resolve your issues in court. One of the best things you can do is have everything, up to the most mundane details, set up to the point where the bureaucracy does not even get the chance to blink at your application. Since they are "thinking in Croatian", it is important to have spatial information in Croatian, such as diagrams and "family trees" if necessary.

Another "gotcha" is on the actual citizenship application form: The Croatian government asks you, in separate questions, "what are your citizenship(s)?", and "what are/is your nationalities?". Croatia, similar to Israel, is founded on the basis of (ethnic) nationality. In other words, your "nationality" is synonymous to your ethnicity. On the application, you are supposed to state "Hrvat" (masculine for Croatian) or "Hrvatica" (feminine for Croatian). They also ask for the "nationality" of your parents. For my mother, I put "Hrvatica", and she is 100% Croatian descent. For my father, it really is none of the Croatian government's business, and I refused to play that game, and I knew I could get away with it via the bureaucracy. I put down "American" as his ethnicity on the application, even though he is of northern European descent. At the consulate, they saw what I did, and they asked me what my father's true nationalities were, which I did answer truthfully verbally. It was kind of funny: It was an awkward situation for the other applicants and the consul general knew to smile and keep his mouth shut, like he had been trained to do.

While Croatians are friendly, some of the government bureaucracy via Croatian diplomatic missions in the US are not-so-friendly. Some people are assigned to the New York consulate due to residing in a state within their jurisdiction.

The New York consulate has tried many times to require that /all/ of your citizenship documentation be less than 6 months old, which is often nearly 100+ documents which includes pages that must be certified, apostilled (authenticated for international use), and translated into Croatian. Due to this strict timeline and ridiculous claim, you basically need to utilize Gantt charts to be successful at this hellbent endeavor. But, if you do your research, and learn some Croatian, you will find a webpage on the Ministry of the Interior's website, explicitly stating that only the criminal background check (in this case: FBI fingerprint background check) has be less than 6 months old for your citizenship application. I have helped many people with this issue.

Many people have emigrant family members who (illegally) transliterated their Croatian names when they arrived in America. A lot of people have last names that officially end with this -ić and their family member changed the ending to -ich upon arrival in America so people would pronounce their last names correctly. The correct way is supposed to be -ic in US English. Some people have family members with the name of "Josip" which the individual changed to "Yosip". Clearly, when the documents are reviewed (birth/marriage/etc. certificates), the name change is noticed and you can still tell that these documents are chained together and tie together the family genealogy which gives entitlement to citizenship under Article 11, for example.

The New York consulate sometimes tries to force people to make the name changes, in proper US English transliteration, on all of the documents. This can be an unbelievable gargantuan logistical task in the US, unlike some other countries. In some cases, it is impossible, because you have to get other family members to agree to change their name, as in their identity--and literally everything tied to it, which they have held all of their life, in order for you to get the documentation right, so you can get your citizenship.

Some people actually do this. But, when the New York consulate tries to pull this stunt off on people, I always recommend getting a Croatian lawyer to take over the battle, so that it is won.

Also, one of the modus operandi in Croatia is nepotism. Connections are crucial, and whom you know gets you places in life. So, one needs to be outgoing and just find people who will help out in situations like this.

Re: Second Citizenships, Residencies, and/or Temporary Relocation

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Beibehaltungsgenehmigung is outdated in this regard. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beibehaltungsgenehmigung

Ah, okay, it does not apply for EU nations (like Croatia) and Switzerland, so it's not a worry for the OP and would matter only if other countries would be involved.

Croatia will be joining the EU in 2023 afaik.

edit: seeing multiple other comments here that is already a member so I guess I am mistaken

Re: Second Citizenships, Residencies, and/or Temporary Relocation

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And hopefully they won't ever need a European bank account, or any other kind of financial service. All I ever signed up for, besides asking for citizenship, also explicitly asked for having US citizenship. Presumably checking that box is the immediate end of the application process.

Perhaps we're just lucky, but our Swiss bank was okay with it. We only had to guarantee to have a licensed US tax advisor prepare our US tax returns, filing requirements, FATCA/FBAR etc. While Swiss banks are a bit crazy about anything related to the US (three years ago or so they just stopped accepting US checks from one month to the next, even though they had previously charged a crazy amount of money for it to be…

I personally would not have gotten the US citizenship due to the negative tax consequences (global taxation), but to each their own. Unless you own substantial assets they can still renounce it in the future if interested.

Re: Second Citizenships, Residencies, and/or Temporary Relocation

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banks ask everyone during application if applicant have a US citizenship, because of some anti-terror-funding law which non-American banks find onerous. Are you saying the kids should lie and deny being American?

It's not about anti terrorism measures. It about fatca https://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations/foreign-account-...

FATCA is a pain though
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