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Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

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Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#331

Post by dahart »

qqii wrote: post #323
dahart wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange theories on top of strange theories. The GTX 1080 is good enough forever? People are using 1080p forever? Games are staying put with the fidelity and textures and poly counts they had 5 years ago, and not improving any more? Last time I checked, there weren’t all that many games that run at 60Hz 1080p and never dip.

You're taking his words out of proportion. Just by looking at the steam hardware survey you'll see that the majority of gamers buy mid range cards and own 1080p monitors. The most popular games aren't the latest AAA titles either. There isn't a game option survey but I'd bet most gamers with mid range cards run AAA games on medium as they value being able to play over a beautiful slideshow.

An Ampere mid-range card is different than a Pascal mid-range card, 3 or 4 generations older depending on how you count.

> I'd bet most gamers with mid range cards run AAA games on medium as they value being able to play over a beautiful slideshow.

Exactly, I agree. That statement supports what I said and contradicts parent's comment "the 1xxx series was more than sufficient for 1080p gaming".

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#332

Post by josalhor »

social_quotient wrote: post #181
josalhor wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does anybody else think that the "mining is bad for the environment and gamers can't buy the cards" argument is a bit weird? After all, if all these cards weren't used for mining but for gaming, wouldn't the environmental outcome be the same? I never had that specific opinion, but I have another point of view. Games bring inherent value to the table. That is, if you didn't play games you would be reading a book, go…

How about mining diamonds? (Honest perspective check)

But diamonds do have some pretty awesome mechanical properties [0]. They do have intrinsic value. Sure, the intrinsic value of diamonds [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Material_properties_of_diamond

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#333

Post by qqii »

dahart wrote: post #284
PartiallyTyped wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument is simple really. By intentionally dropping the hashrate, you reduce the incentive to buy the GPUs for mining. This means that when or if the mining craze stops akin to 2018, there would be plenty of second hand 3xxx series cards to go around, which would only hurt NVDA's pocket. Recall that during the previous craze, NVDA was stuck with a huge inventory of GPUs after the craze ended, inventory that can…

What you’re asking for is to get royally screwed by miners now - again - just so you might have the chance to get a cheap and very-used card later. And you’re blaming Nvidia for losing this imagined opportunity a year from now. Right, like you point out, in 2018, Nvidia was making a lot of money on leftover 1080s. And they’re proposing to not do that this time. Are you suggesting that gamers are going to bypass a $33…

Gamers are getting screwed by Nivida today since the silicone they normally bin as gaming cards are being allocated to mining cards.

In return they're only given the 3060 which is still profitable for miners and Nividia refuses to restrict mining on any other gaming Geforce series card.rxqy

Miners are also screwing over gamers by buying their gaming cards today. In future miners will be a positive for games as they flood the used market with gaming cards.

Neither are altruistic here.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#334

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

pornel wrote: post #4

I have no sympathy for miners, but purely from software freedom perspective this is maximally evil: closed-source software that decides what you can use your hardware for. The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.

Is it impossible to game on these?

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#335

Post by dahart »

qqii wrote: post #326
dahart wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re making a huge assumption that they could be resold, even if they’re the same chips. This could be an entirely new market for chips that have yield defects in the graphics units, that will not ever work for games, and were previously already put in the trash. And your theory doesn’t explain two things: - how this hurts gamers now, and - why if Nvidia just wanted profit and the chips are useful for games, why wo…

> You’re making a huge assumption that they could be resold, even if they’re the same chips. This could be an entirely new market for chips that have yield defects in the graphics units, that will not ever work for games, and were previously already put in the trash. Chip binning is nothing new, the article even explains this phenomenon.

Fully agree. Didn't suggest otherwise. That doesn't mean that the CMP cards are binning in the exact same way. I mean, isn't it a guarantee that the binning criteria change here to accommodate CMP? Isn't it entirely possible that the new bins are opportunities to sell wafers that couldn't be sold to gamers at all? Nvidia already has market segments for compute cards with no video. Yes, I'm speculating. So is parent & the article. I'm not sure it even matters. What matters is that gaming supply is less destroyed by mining demand.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#336

Post by qqii »

postalrat wrote: post #177
qqii wrote: post #51

A lot of people are claiming this as a win for the non mining consumer but as the articles puts it: > Nvidia does state that these GPUs "don't meet the specifications required of a GeForce GPU and, thus, don't impact the availability of GeForce GPUs to gamers." Frankly, that doesn't mean much. What does Nvidia do with a GPU that normally can't be sold as an RTX 3090? They bin it as a 3080, and GA102 chips that can't…

If they can simply change the key needed to sign the bios or whatever for new cards coming off their production line they can continue to support cards that were sold before the change and have the limiter for cards made after the change. They could also make a tiny to change to the model number. I don't see how they could possibly be sued for doing so. Nvidia is making the same money regardless if a miner or gamer b…

They can but I doubt the will as I, like the quoted article belive this would lead them to being sued over misleading marketing, just like the 970 3.5G controversy.

Maybe the model number would do it, but I'd imagine it would have to be pretty distinguishing.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#337

Post by noxer »

johnday wrote: post #123
gruez wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Pretty sure their obligations to any shareholders would be to limit it so more gamers can play and buy games for it. It's not really the same because playstations are sold at break-even or at a loss with the expectation that follow-up revenue would make up for it. On the other hand no such dynamic exists for nvidia. For them, sale to a miner is the same as a sale to gamer.

This may look true from the perspective of a single sale, but in the long term this just doesn't hold up. NVIDIA builds a strong and long-held reputation with gamers, and are a well renowned name in the field. If they made cards for miners at the detriment of gamers, they risk losing that valuable market position.

Would be true if there is healthy competition. And if a significant percentage of potential buyers would know about it and thus avoid NVIDIA. However in reality most customers wont know and they still get the GPU its just expensive which they most likely see as a result of the pandemic.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#338

Post by postalrat »

qqii wrote: post #336
postalrat wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they can simply change the key needed to sign the bios or whatever for new cards coming off their production line they can continue to support cards that were sold before the change and have the limiter for cards made after the change. They could also make a tiny to change to the model number. I don't see how they could possibly be sued for doing so. Nvidia is making the same money regardless if a miner or gamer b…

They can but I doubt the will as I, like the quoted article belive this would lead them to being sued over misleading marketing, just like the 970 3.5G controversy. Maybe the model number would do it, but I'd imagine it would have to be pretty distinguishing.

They don't need to continue selling existing SKUs. Just change the signing key and SKU and change any misleading advertising they might have.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#339

Post by dahart »

qqii wrote: post #333
dahart wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you’re asking for is to get royally screwed by miners now - again - just so you might have the chance to get a cheap and very-used card later. And you’re blaming Nvidia for losing this imagined opportunity a year from now. Right, like you point out, in 2018, Nvidia was making a lot of money on leftover 1080s. And they’re proposing to not do that this time. Are you suggesting that gamers are going to bypass a $33…

Gamers are getting screwed by Nivida today since the silicone they normally bin as gaming cards are being allocated to mining cards. In return they're only given the 3060 which is still profitable for miners and Nividia refuses to restrict mining on any other gaming Geforce series card.rxqy Miners are also screwing over gamers by buying their gaming cards today. In future miners will be a positive for games as they f…

> the silicone they normally bin as gaming cards are being allocated to mining cards.

That's an assumption, it's speculation. If true, it means there will be no 3060s for gamers because they'll sell out as CMP, in contradiction to what Nvidia said. We will see if your assumption comes true...

I don't know why your speculative assumption makes any sense. If the chips that could be sold to gamers were being sold to miners instead and effectively "screwing" gamers, then it means that there's no point to segmenting the market, no advantage for Nvidia. It would be no different than letting miners buy the 3060s, and just not having CMP cards.

> In future miners will be a positive for games as they flood the used market with gaming cards.

That doesn't make up for the losses to gamers up front, it does not compensate by 100%, it can't. It would be better (for gamers) if there was no bubble.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#340

Post by loceng »

LMYahooTFY wrote: post #321
loceng wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What I'll say is that the absurdity of this trite dismissal ..." Are you talking about your trite dismissal of my stating it's a global MLM scheme - which it fits the pattern for precisely? And also a Ponzi scheme because the final latest adopters are left holding the bag - meanwhile wealth was unnecessarily transferred weighted towards the earliest adopters. Blockchain is a promising technology, designing it like B…

>meanwhile wealth was unnecessarily transferred weighted towards the earliest adopters. How many companies and technologies is this true or? Does this make them all MLM schemes? Nothing about your response indicates you're giving me a generous interpretation at all, especially given how much of this response is you dumping rhetoric on me. Being snarky and in the same breath elaborately calling me "holier-than-thou" s…

I specifically even said blockchain is a promising technology - not receptive? LUL
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