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Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

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Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#321

Post by LMYahooTFY »

loceng wrote: post #300
LMYahooTFY wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>global MLM scheme. What I'll say is that the absurdity of this trite dismissal presents a large undertaking for anyone to begin to try and teach you what cryptocurrencies are. Most of the silicon valley billionaires acknowledge it as a promising technology, if that doesn't warrant some serious (read: many hours of difficult reading) consideration than expecting strangers on a message board to help you do it seems a…

"What I'll say is that the absurdity of this trite dismissal ..." Are you talking about your trite dismissal of my stating it's a global MLM scheme - which it fits the pattern for precisely? And also a Ponzi scheme because the final latest adopters are left holding the bag - meanwhile wealth was unnecessarily transferred weighted towards the earliest adopters. Blockchain is a promising technology, designing it like B…

>meanwhile wealth was unnecessarily transferred weighted towards the earliest adopters.

How many companies and technologies is this true or? Does this make them all MLM schemes?

Nothing about your response indicates you're giving me a generous interpretation at all, especially given how much of this response is you dumping rhetoric on me. Being snarky and in the same breath elaborately calling me "holier-than-thou" seems like we're just going to have a name calling arms race.

Similarly, the notion that more intelligent people are 'sucked in and defensive' is the true explanation, and you don't seem receptive to another interpretation to intelligent people thinking a technology is promising...it seems we may as well just leave it here. Thanks for your time.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#322

Post by arcticbull »

roter wrote: post #259
arcticbull wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste. Like literally every other piece of Bitcoin or crypto mining technology. It’s straight to the landfill every 6 months. Bitcoin generates 100 GRAMS of ewaste for every transaction. Every 2 transactions consumes as much energy as driving a Tesla from SF to NY [edit for…

I checked your numbers against [0]. Road distance NY -> SF = 2900 miles [1]. Model S mileage is 290Wh/mi [2]. That is 840kW for Tesla against 657kW for a single transaction. This is all order-of-magnitude stuff but... wow. [0] https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption/ [1] https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=road%20distance%20san%... [2] https://www.zeviecars.com/browse-cars/tesla-model-s

Yeah the distance thing was ball parked, based on the last time I ran the numbers. To your point, I accidentally omitted to say “round trip from SF to NY” - I also used the great circle distance (2586mi) and ballparked a phone at 200g, roughly the weight of an iPhone.

Thank you for going through the numbers and adding the sources. I was on my phone and meant to circle back.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#323

Post by qqii »

dahart wrote: post #295
PartiallyTyped wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And your theory doesn’t explain two things: - how this hurts gamers now, and - why if Nvidia just wanted profit and the chips are useful for games, why wouldn’t Nvidia simply do nothing and let the miners buy all the 3060s. Wouldn’t that be the most profitable thing here? No it is not. If they mis-predict when the mining craze ends, they will be stuck with a huge inventory and no way to deal with it. The reason the…

Strange theories on top of strange theories. The GTX 1080 is good enough forever? People are using 1080p forever? Games are staying put with the fidelity and textures and poly counts they had 5 years ago, and not improving any more? Last time I checked, there weren’t all that many games that run at 60Hz 1080p and never dip.

You're taking his words out of proportion. Just by looking at the steam hardware survey you'll see that the majority of gamers buy mid range cards and own 1080p monitors. The most popular games aren't the latest AAA titles either.

There isn't a game option survey but I'd bet most gamers with mid range cards run AAA games on medium as they value being able to play over a beautiful slideshow.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#324

Post by jkilpatr »

derefr wrote: post #203
jkilpatr wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ETH2 'beacon chain' is a meta-chain that's supposed to checkpoint a bunch of 'sub chains' for scalability. But they have launched it with many big questions unanswered. What does a 'sub chain' actually look like to interact with? How do you coordinate with many of them? All these questions have answers in theory, but not answers in solid production ready interoperable code. Furthermore some of these problems like…

IMHO the most important endpoint for ETH2 isn’t ETH1 under the beacon-chain, or greenfield projects under the beacon chain, but rather major projects that have already been in development for years, and already had a testnet targeting some alternative sub-chain substrate (e.g. Polkadot, Near), re-evaluating their alternatives at mainnet launch time, and choosing to use ETH2 as their mainnet substrate chain instead. T…

> and choosing to use ETH2 as their mainnet substrate chain instead.

But why exactly? Until ETH1 is in the ETH2 chain ecosystem ETH2 is just another blockchain platform, providing no network effects.

ETH2's big selling point was higher throughput but bridges are already starting to commoditize access to more throughput from ETH1. ETH2 could provide smoother access than the bridge interfaces provided by other chains. (I'm speaking of bridges both to and from ETH1 and within the bridge blockchain's ecosystem like IBC)

It's not that I don't think ETH2 could win this. There's a clear path to victory.

- ETH1 integrated ASAP, going all in on expanding ETH1 capacity and bringing it under ETH2

- Provide a subchain interface that's better than IBC or any other cross-chain interface on the market

- Fullnode tooling that really works well (partial syncing for block availability, seamlessly syncs multiple chains etc)

Once you have these you can keep ETH1 users via network effect and provide access to more capacity more easily than other potential platforms.

But I don't see a clear plan from ETH2 to do either of those things. Cross chain communication is a theory-only problem devoid of the extremely polished tooling it will need to win and ETH1 under the beacon chain doesn't even seem to have a plan.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#325

Post by squeaky-clean »

arcticbull wrote: post #242
pornel wrote: post #4

I have no sympathy for miners, but purely from software freedom perspective this is maximally evil: closed-source software that decides what you can use your hardware for. The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.

> The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste. Like literally every other piece of Bitcoin or crypto mining technology. It’s straight to the landfill every 6 months. Bitcoin generates 100 GRAMS of ewaste for every transaction. Every 2 transactions consumes as much energy as driving a Tesla from SF to NY [edit for…

> Like literally every other piece of Bitcoin or crypto mining technology.

I don't get this comparison because Nvidia isn't a Bitcoin mining technology company. Or at least they weren't until a week ago. When someone deems it not profitable to mine on a set of 50 GPUs they purchased, they can resell those to gamers. But these mining cards are just e-waste.

> Don’t hate the player; hate the game.

Games don't exist without players.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#326

Post by qqii »

dahart wrote: post #253
MAGZine wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they just put these chips into regular cards then they could eventually be resold, to gamers, at a great price. Instead, during a global silicon shortage, nvidia is producing silicon that has one use and then into the trash.

You’re making a huge assumption that they could be resold, even if they’re the same chips. This could be an entirely new market for chips that have yield defects in the graphics units, that will not ever work for games, and were previously already put in the trash. And your theory doesn’t explain two things: - how this hurts gamers now, and - why if Nvidia just wanted profit and the chips are useful for games, why wo…

> You’re making a huge assumption that they could be resold, even if they’re the same chips. This could be an entirely new market for chips that have yield defects in the graphics units, that will not ever work for games, and were previously already put in the trash.

Chip binning is nothing new, the article even explains this phenomenon.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#327

Post by altcognito »

volta83 wrote: post #316
roblabla wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nvidia isn't using TSMC for any of their current products, they're using Samsung. They may switch to TSMC for their more high-end cards, but I don't think that is the case right now.

This isn't true. Nvidia is using TSMC right now for all of the compute products, e.g., see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampere_(microarchitecture) > TSMC's 7 nm FinFET process for A100 > Custom version of Samsung's 8nm process (8N) for the GeForce 30 series[8] That is, NVIDIA is using both, TSMC and Samsung. Both are probably maxed out.

Right, so what’s their volume on a100s and are they a favored mining tool? If so, I think that might be the disconnect between what people think nvidia is focused on, and what they are focused on.

Plus, I’ll point out that a lot of information can be hidden by public companies. Amazon was pretty quiet about it’s growth in sales of AWS as a dominant force for a number of years.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#328

Post by comex »

gruez wrote: post #141
johnday wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may look true from the perspective of a single sale, but in the long term this just doesn't hold up. NVIDIA builds a strong and long-held reputation with gamers, and are a well renowned name in the field. If they made cards for miners at the detriment of gamers, they risk losing that valuable market position.

This is a common sentiment I see on discussion forums, but I think it's wishful thinking at best. Most consumers aren't enthusiasts that follow these types of news, and even the ones who do probably won't care/remember a few years down the line. After all, nvidia seems to be doing just fine despite their long history of anti-consumer practices over the years.

Which anti-consumer practices? That is, given that we're talking about gamers.

There's Nvidia's longstanding allergy to open source, but that only affects the tiny fraction of gamers who use Linux.

There's this hash rate thing, but from a gamer's perspective that's pro-consumer.

I suppose you can count their price increases for recent GPU generations. But I don't know if that rises to the level of "anti-consumer". Especially when they've been delivering performance to match.

The best example I can think of is their policy of requiring servers to use their more-expensive 'professional' line of GPUs. This does hurt gamers, since it forces game streaming services using Nvidia cards to charge higher prices. That said, among the major streaming services, Stadia, xCloud, and PlayStation Now all use AMD GPUs, while GeForce Now can skirt the policy since it belongs to Nvidia itself. The remaining services are relatively obscure – though perhaps they'd be less obscure if Nvidia didn't have that policy.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#329

Post by legohead »

Been trying to build a PC for my daughter for weeks now, waiting for just a half decent GPU to become available. You can't find the 16*, 20*, or of course the 30* line of Nvidia available anywhere (except overpriced on Ebay), it's nuts.

I'm not in a rush or I'd just buy a prebuilt PC which you can still find with these cards, but I wanted to show my daughter how to build a PC. Guess it will be a few more months...

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#330

Post by trhway »

pornel wrote: post #4

I have no sympathy for miners, but purely from software freedom perspective this is maximally evil: closed-source software that decides what you can use your hardware for. The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.

first they came for the miners... As Nvidia opens itself to those games, i can see how Russia or China say would legislate for the drivers to have to refuse to run say specific crypto algorithms or specific neural nets training if it includes specific names, terms, phrases.

"RTX 3060 software drivers are designed to detect specific attributes of the Ethereum cryptocurrency mining algorithm, and limit the hash rate, or cryptocurrency mining efficiency, by around 50 percent."

open source drivers have been long due. Now there is real $Billions staked on that need.

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