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Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

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Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#301

Post by kergonath »

windexh8er wrote: post #247
m3kw9 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine the PlayStation was able to be used to mine crypto. Game developers depend on gamers to actually play their games, what would you have Sony do? Encourage it or do nothing? Pretty sure their obligations to any shareholders would be to limit it so more gamers can play and buy games for it.

Not trying to pick on your comment but I'm always frustrated when someone points out "obligations to shareholders". I wish people would push back on this more. Sony's obligation when building and selling the PlayStation is to the end user customer. Not the shareholder. Because if Sony has only the shareholder in mind then a gaming console is probably the wrong market to be in from a pure profit perspective. Sony's ob…

Thanks. There should be such a comment every time someone mentions “but they have to maximise profit” and “think of the shareholder”. This point of view is not rooted in any law or legal principle and is just the Wall Street version of “might makes right”.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#302

Post by WanderPanda »

windexh8er wrote: post #247
m3kw9 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine the PlayStation was able to be used to mine crypto. Game developers depend on gamers to actually play their games, what would you have Sony do? Encourage it or do nothing? Pretty sure their obligations to any shareholders would be to limit it so more gamers can play and buy games for it.

Not trying to pick on your comment but I'm always frustrated when someone points out "obligations to shareholders". I wish people would push back on this more. Sony's obligation when building and selling the PlayStation is to the end user customer. Not the shareholder. Because if Sony has only the shareholder in mind then a gaming console is probably the wrong market to be in from a pure profit perspective. Sony's ob…

I read this "Motives that are very short term profit driven." everywhere but never came to an explanation why that would be the case (something above anecdotal level). In my understanding DCF is just the natural way to put it. Maybe the discounting rate can depend a bit on the shareholder, but in large the investment horizon of most players should be quite far, given the current "risk-free" return.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#303

Post by WanderPanda »

kergonath wrote: post #301
windexh8er wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trying to pick on your comment but I'm always frustrated when someone points out "obligations to shareholders". I wish people would push back on this more. Sony's obligation when building and selling the PlayStation is to the end user customer. Not the shareholder. Because if Sony has only the shareholder in mind then a gaming console is probably the wrong market to be in from a pure profit perspective. Sony's ob…

Thanks. There should be such a comment every time someone mentions “but they have to maximise profit” and “think of the shareholder”. This point of view is not rooted in any law or legal principle and is just the Wall Street version of “might makes right”.

Of course it is rooted in law, natural law. Imagine a company makes a decent profit and then decides its goal is not to make so much profit anymore? What do you think would happen? I would vouch for Parkinsons Law kicking in instantly. This would just end up in a waste of resources and misery overall

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#304

Post by qqii »

SloopJon wrote: post #85
qqii wrote: post #51

A lot of people are claiming this as a win for the non mining consumer but as the articles puts it: > Nvidia does state that these GPUs "don't meet the specifications required of a GeForce GPU and, thus, don't impact the availability of GeForce GPUs to gamers." Frankly, that doesn't mean much. What does Nvidia do with a GPU that normally can't be sold as an RTX 3090? They bin it as a 3080, and GA102 chips that can't…

> > These are GPUs that could have gone into a graphics card. That's an interesting take. After the discussion of the announcement earlier this week, I presumed that this was a way for NVIDIA to improve yields by rescuing bad chips from the scrap heap. If a failed 3090/3080/3070 is going to a CMP instead of a 3060, that's not the win-win that they're pitching. If the alternative is a 2060, on the other hand, I'd stil…

They improve yields on their flagship 3090s by rescuing ones that fail as 3080, 3070 or the highest bin that they meet specification. They wouldn't become a 2060 as that uses a different architecture.

The manufacturing processes will also improve over time and at some point demand will dictate binning over yeild. Chips that are capable of better performance are restricted and sold as lower end cards. If yield is no longer an issue is simply more profitable.

Back in the day it wasn't uncommon for enthusiasts to take lower end cards and bios mod them for equivalent performance, but now features are often disabled in silicone.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#305

Post by sellyme »

somehnrdr14726 wrote: post #279

At some point nvidia would be better off mining with these gpus than selling them. The oddest solution I can think of is gamers lease graphics cards at a low low price and nvidia mines on them in the off-hours. With a big enough operation they could force all the other miners into becoming resellers. It's free, distributed electricity and it gets the gamers off their backs. (While I have your attention, I'm pretty su…

> The oddest solution I can think of is gamers lease graphics cards at a low low price and nvidia mines on them in the off-hours.

This would be a complete non-starter in markets with high electricity costs or temperatures. Running a GTX 3090 at 100% load during the summer where I live would cost $140/month and will heat up my room to about 65°C.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#306

Post by Closi »

hobofan wrote: post #256
arcticbull wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste. Like literally every other piece of Bitcoin or crypto mining technology. It’s straight to the landfill every 6 months. Bitcoin generates 100 GRAMS of ewaste for every transaction. Every 2 transactions consumes as much energy as driving a Tesla from SF to NY [edit for…

> It’s straight to the landfill every 6 months. Isn't that a trend that has mostly ended or is about to end now? It looks like that was mostly caused by nm process improvements for ASIC chips in the past. With 7/5nm ASIC chips it seems like it should now progress as fast/slowly as the nm process capabilities of chip manufacturers in general. Not pro-BTC, but this seem very much like faulty interpolation based on a pa…

Technology continues to advance - I don’t think there is enough evidence to say that we have hit a fundamental limit on computer/asic power/speed performance yet.

3nm will hit in 2024, but until then there will always be advances in chip design. It’s not just about speed, it’s also about thermals, power consumption and manufacture price to work out the TCO of mining.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#307

Post by [deleted] »

lwhi wrote: post #79
pornel wrote: post #4

I have no sympathy for miners, but purely from software freedom perspective this is maximally evil: closed-source software that decides what you can use your hardware for. The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.

I agree. It's a bad move. Provide a better product for mining .. don't cripple what's out there. This feels similar to when Nurofen tried to repackage generic drugs for different types of pain. I.e. ultimately a branding exercise. -- Edit: spelling and s/paracetamol/generic drugs

[deleted]

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#308

Post by Freak_NL »

mlyle wrote: post #278
roter wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I checked your numbers against [0]. Road distance NY -> SF = 2900 miles [1]. Model S mileage is 290Wh/mi [2]. That is 840kW for Tesla against 657kW for a single transaction. This is all order-of-magnitude stuff but... wow. [0] https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption/ [1] https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=road%20distance%20san%... [2] https://www.zeviecars.com/browse-cars/tesla-model-s

kWhr, not kW. It's also 1/2 to 3/4th the electricity used in a month by a typical US household.

kWh, if we're going to be pedantic, which I approve of. :)

It bugs me that even quality newspapers frequently mistake power (watt (W)) for energy (joules (J) or watt-hour (Wh, often with the usual metric prefixes)).

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#309

Post by reversecss »

jkilpatr wrote: post #76
ArkanExplorer wrote: post #69

GPU mining is going to become much less attractive this year due to Ethereum moving to Proof of Stake, right? If this is the case (perhaps an expert can chime in) - it makes sense to limit the hash rate now, to prevent these cards being dumped later this year? And to redirect miners towards higher-margin products in the meantime, whilst ensuring better supply for gamers (who are the actual long-term customers).

The ETH2 'beacon chain' is a meta-chain that's supposed to checkpoint a bunch of 'sub chains' for scalability. But they have launched it with many big questions unanswered. What does a 'sub chain' actually look like to interact with? How do you coordinate with many of them? All these questions have answers in theory, but not answers in solid production ready interoperable code. Furthermore some of these problems like…

What are your thoughts on eip 1559 and it's impact on mining profitability? That is supposedly coming this summer and my understanding is that it fixes in place gas fees, and burns off some fees that would otherwise go to miners. I'm not sure how large of an impact that will make on mining profitability, but I was under the assumption that some miners were going to pump and dump their cards right before they anticipate gpu profitability going down, so they can make some scalper money. I was thinking that miners would be redistributing their supply in the next 3 months or so.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#310

Post by qqii »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #117
qqii wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing it to roulette is such a hyperbole. Would you say that penny stocks are playing the roulette? You may argue they have similar odds but there are fundimental differences between them.

>Would you say that penny stocks are playing the roulette? Where did I talk about penny stocks? I was talking about volatile meme stocks like $GME being like playing the roulette.

There's still a difference between buying $GME and playing roulette. Volatile as it may be the chance of loosing all of your investment is greatly lower with meme stocks.
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