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Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

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Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#61

Post by csomar »

znpy wrote: post #48
terhechte wrote: post #3

I'm probably going to be downvoted into oblivion but I'm genuinely curious: Does anybody else think that the "mining is bad for the environment and gamers can't buy the cards" argument is a bit weird? After all, if all these cards weren't used for mining but for gaming, wouldn't the environmental outcome be the same? I mean, is there any inherent upside to burning tons of energy for games vs burning it for a cryptocu…

> After all, if all these cards weren't used for mining but for gaming, wouldn't the environmental outcome be the same? No. Really, no. Mining hardware is just trash when new hardware is released, pretty much immediately. OTOH, gaming hardware very often has a second life in the form of used hardware and lower-specced gaming computers. Don't be fooled by YouTube influencers, most of the real people won't be buying th…

> Mining hardware is just trash when new hardware is released, pretty much immediately.

How come? You can still game with these.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#62

Post by qqii »

josalhor wrote: post #21
terhechte wrote: post #3

I'm probably going to be downvoted into oblivion but I'm genuinely curious: Does anybody else think that the "mining is bad for the environment and gamers can't buy the cards" argument is a bit weird? After all, if all these cards weren't used for mining but for gaming, wouldn't the environmental outcome be the same? I mean, is there any inherent upside to burning tons of energy for games vs burning it for a cryptocu…

> Does anybody else think that the "mining is bad for the environment and gamers can't buy the cards" argument is a bit weird? After all, if all these cards weren't used for mining but for gaming, wouldn't the environmental outcome be the same? I never had that specific opinion, but I have another point of view. Games bring inherent value to the table. That is, if you didn't play games you would be reading a book, go…

Although you may disagree with the current value of most cryptocurrencies would you at least agree that their inhenrant value isn't 0?

Newer projects like Uniswap, AAVE and MakerDAO (for DAI) are uniquely new and novel concepts that can't be accomplished trustlessly without blockchain technology.

Bitcoin has a lot of intangibles (name recognition, trust, hashpower) and for many is a more intersting asset (in what it represents) compared to gold.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#63

Post by qqii »

Sonnen wrote: post #49
terhechte wrote: post #3

I'm probably going to be downvoted into oblivion but I'm genuinely curious: Does anybody else think that the "mining is bad for the environment and gamers can't buy the cards" argument is a bit weird? After all, if all these cards weren't used for mining but for gaming, wouldn't the environmental outcome be the same? I mean, is there any inherent upside to burning tons of energy for games vs burning it for a cryptocu…

Gaming gives people enjoyment. They are not consuming other energy sources and to a certain degree, i think this is okay. It also combines and supports advantages in science by making this more affordable for the rest. You can still critizie it and there have been huge energy savings for idle GPUs which was not the case 10? years ago. Nonetheless, one thing doesn't make the other thing better or worse. Doing bitcoin…

Trustless prediction markets and gambling.

Trustless exchanges and lending (including tokens pegged to real world assets like the dollar or stocks).

NFTs as digital proof of ownership.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#64

Post by qqii »

kall wrote: post #17
terhechte wrote: post #3

I'm probably going to be downvoted into oblivion but I'm genuinely curious: Does anybody else think that the "mining is bad for the environment and gamers can't buy the cards" argument is a bit weird? After all, if all these cards weren't used for mining but for gaming, wouldn't the environmental outcome be the same? I mean, is there any inherent upside to burning tons of energy for games vs burning it for a cryptocu…

I would argue that gaming creates a lot more value (joy) per tflophour(?) compared to mining. How many thousands of hours of gaming equals one btc transaction?

How do you compare the value of gaming to trustless decentralised gambling or prediction markets? What about to NFT based trading cards? How about decentralised exchanges?

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#65

Post by qqii »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #19
terhechte wrote: post #3

I'm probably going to be downvoted into oblivion but I'm genuinely curious: Does anybody else think that the "mining is bad for the environment and gamers can't buy the cards" argument is a bit weird? After all, if all these cards weren't used for mining but for gaming, wouldn't the environmental outcome be the same? I mean, is there any inherent upside to burning tons of energy for games vs burning it for a cryptocu…

Sure, ultimately gaming is entirely optional, but alas it's no different than other pastimes in that regard. Games make a lot of people very happy though and provide employment to millions (?) of people, so personally I'd put it higher in the needs hierarchy than crypto-currencies. Not being able to buy the latest graphics card due to high demand surely is a "first-world problem", but for NVIDIA it might become a pro…

> Is this really good news, or is this just Nvidia playing both sides? To be clear, these CMP cards are still the same exact silicon that goes into GeForce and Quadro graphics cards. They don't have video outputs, cooling should be improved (for large-scale data center mining operations), and they're better tuned for efficiency. But every single GPU sold as a CMP card means one less GPU sold as a graphics card. What's perhaps worse is that while miners can still use consumer cards for mining (maybe not the upcoming RTX 3060, depending on how well Nvidia's throttling works), gamers can't use these mining cards for gaming.

> Nvidia does state that these GPUs "don't meet the specifications required of a GeForce GPU and, thus, don't impact the availability of GeForce GPUs to gamers." Frankly, that doesn't mean much. What does Nvidia do with a GPU that normally can't be sold as an RTX 3090? They bin it as a 3080, and GA102 chips that can't meet the 3080 requirements can end up in a future 3070 (or maybe a 3070 Ti). The same goes for the rest of the line. Make no mistake: These are GPUs that could have gone into a graphics card. Maybe not a reference 3060 Ti, 3070, 3080, or 3090, but we've seen TU104 chips in RTX 2060 cards, so anything is possible.

Nivida isn't risking anything.

They boost their sales now by selling mining cards knowing they won't enter the seccond hand market to compete with their new products.

They gain good PR with their mining locked 3060 cards. Gamers praise them without internalising that a number of mining cards would have been binned lower and sold, but instead an artificial restriction allows Nivida to allocate behind the scenes.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#66

Post by qqii »

csomar wrote: post #61
znpy wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After all, if all these cards weren't used for mining but for gaming, wouldn't the environmental outcome be the same? No. Really, no. Mining hardware is just trash when new hardware is released, pretty much immediately. OTOH, gaming hardware very often has a second life in the form of used hardware and lower-specced gaming computers. Don't be fooled by YouTube influencers, most of the real people won't be buying th…

> Mining hardware is just trash when new hardware is released, pretty much immediately. How come? You can still game with these.

No you can't, as the article explains these cards don't have display outputs.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#67

Post by qqii »

Tenoke wrote: post #57
znpy wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After all, if all these cards weren't used for mining but for gaming, wouldn't the environmental outcome be the same? No. Really, no. Mining hardware is just trash when new hardware is released, pretty much immediately. OTOH, gaming hardware very often has a second life in the form of used hardware and lower-specced gaming computers. Don't be fooled by YouTube influencers, most of the real people won't be buying th…

>Mining hardware is just trash when new hardware is released, pretty much immediately. Except people are still mining with cards they bought 4-5 years ago. This is not True.

Some people are, but we also saw a flood of both normal and mining only cards in the used market last time the mining bubble burst.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#68

Post by chrisseaton »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #44
chrisseaton wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably people enjoy investing in crypto. It’s a hobby for many, like gaming.

>investing in crypto Crypto is an investment the same way $GME or playing the roulette is an investment. Better term would be speculating or gambling. Nothing wrong with either, but let's call it what it is.

Isn’t that what I already said? Investing as a hobby? Recreation? Like investing in Pokemon cards?

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#69

Post by ArkanExplorer »

GPU mining is going to become much less attractive this year due to Ethereum moving to Proof of Stake, right?

If this is the case (perhaps an expert can chime in) - it makes sense to limit the hash rate now, to prevent these cards being dumped later this year? And to redirect miners towards higher-margin products in the meantime, whilst ensuring better supply for gamers (who are the actual long-term customers).

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#70

Post by DoctorNick »

qqii wrote: post #47
A12-B wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, this is the one example of a company doing something for the public good even when no one asked them to.

How so? Take this excerpt from the article: > Nvidia does state that these GPUs "don't meet the specifications required of a GeForce GPU and, thus, don't impact the availability of GeForce GPUs to gamers." Frankly, that doesn't mean much. What does Nvidia do with a GPU that normally can't be sold as an RTX 3090? They bin it as a 3080, and GA102 chips that can't meet the 3080 requirements can end up in a future 3070 (…

Because cryptocurrency mining is now one of the biggest contributors to climate change. It is killing the planet. It is a moral imperiative to shut it down by any means necessary.
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