Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate • Hacker News Board

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#11

Post by qqii » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 11:21 AM UTC

Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26180260

Also on reddit: (Linus from Linus Tech Tip's Take, I'd reccomended watching this one) https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/locpyb/nvidia_pre...

(Initial Article) https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/lmnpag/geforce_is...

(Clarification that the restrictions in driver+firmware) https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/lnf78f/nvidia_gef...

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/lnrgdc/cryptomini...

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/lng4q4/nvidia_has...

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/lmqd56/nvidia_ner...

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/lmom3w/nvidia_is_...

(Initial Leak) https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/lmrsrj/zotac_gefo...

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#12

Post by almog » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 11:21 AM UTC

terhechte wrote: post #3

I'm probably going to be downvoted into oblivion but I'm genuinely curious: Does anybody else think that the "mining is bad for the environment and gamers can't buy the cards" argument is a bit weird? After all, if all these cards weren't used for mining but for gaming, wouldn't the environmental outcome be the same? I mean, is there any inherent upside to burning tons of energy for games vs burning it for a cryptocu…

> I mean, is there any inherent upside to burning tons of energy for games vs burning it for a cryptocurrency?

You presume the total energy consumption would be the same whereas it'd be more likely that GPUs that are used for mining will be used 24/7 whereas gaming is likely to be performed by a human being who cannot or would not utilize the GPU nearly as many hours of the day.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#13

Post by martinald » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 11:22 AM UTC

pornel wrote: post #4

I have no sympathy for miners, but purely from software freedom perspective this is maximally evil: closed-source software that decides what you can use your hardware for. The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.

Surely it would be worth the same as the normal RTX 3060? It will have the same use for gaming?

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#14

Post by Lvl999Noob » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 11:22 AM UTC

terhechte wrote: post #3

I'm probably going to be downvoted into oblivion but I'm genuinely curious: Does anybody else think that the "mining is bad for the environment and gamers can't buy the cards" argument is a bit weird? After all, if all these cards weren't used for mining but for gaming, wouldn't the environmental outcome be the same? I mean, is there any inherent upside to burning tons of energy for games vs burning it for a cryptocu…

> is there any inherent upside to burning tons of energy for games vs burning it for a cryptocurrency?

Not an upside, but probably that the mining is mostly done by 1 person (or org) who use a lot of energy. A gaming rig probably won't be running 24x7 as max utilization.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#15

Post by jleahy » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 11:23 AM UTC

I’m guessing they are going to try and raise the prices and create a new market segment. Just as they have separated datacenter GPUs, increased the price massively (coming up to a factor of 10x) and then tried to use a stick to prevent the use of desktop GPUs for datacenter work (eg. the licensing change).

Unfortunately (for their bottom line) it probably won’t work, if the restriction is in the driver then someone like myself (or many other people in HN) will have it patched in a number of hours. If it’s in the firmware it’ll take longer, but it’ll be done. Unless they’ve actually fused out integer units on the consumer cards, that would be bold.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#16

Post by robkop » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 11:25 AM UTC

martinald wrote: post #13

pornel wrote: post #4

I have no sympathy for miners, but purely from software freedom perspective this is maximally evil: closed-source software that decides what you can use your hardware for. The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.

Surely it would be worth the same as the normal RTX 3060? It will have the same use for gaming?

They are removing all the display ports from the card so I can't imagine it can be used for gaming.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#17

Post by kall » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 11:26 AM UTC

terhechte wrote: post #3

I'm probably going to be downvoted into oblivion but I'm genuinely curious: Does anybody else think that the "mining is bad for the environment and gamers can't buy the cards" argument is a bit weird? After all, if all these cards weren't used for mining but for gaming, wouldn't the environmental outcome be the same? I mean, is there any inherent upside to burning tons of energy for games vs burning it for a cryptocu…

I would argue that gaming creates a lot more value (joy) per tflophour(?) compared to mining. How many thousands of hours of gaming equals one btc transaction?

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#18

Post by kevingadd » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 11:27 AM UTC

terhechte wrote: post #3

I'm probably going to be downvoted into oblivion but I'm genuinely curious: Does anybody else think that the "mining is bad for the environment and gamers can't buy the cards" argument is a bit weird? After all, if all these cards weren't used for mining but for gaming, wouldn't the environmental outcome be the same? I mean, is there any inherent upside to burning tons of energy for games vs burning it for a cryptocu…

Not even the most dedicated gamer is going to burn the amount of electricity a miner does with the same hardware. That's not even considering the number of cards miners purchase...

The number of games that actually cause a modern GPU to hit its maximum TDP is also much lower than you'd think. If vsync is turned on, even a 3060 will trivially hit 60fps on older/simpler games, and modern ones unless the settings are turned way up. Games like Doom Eternal and Counter Strike Go are incredibly well optimized and can easily hit hundreds of frames per second on modern hardware. Likewise if it's a simple 2D game or more balanced title that leans on the CPU (unless you're using complex shader packs, popular games like Minecraft do a lot of their work on the CPU)

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#19

Post by ThePhysicist » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 11:28 AM UTC

terhechte wrote: post #3

I'm probably going to be downvoted into oblivion but I'm genuinely curious: Does anybody else think that the "mining is bad for the environment and gamers can't buy the cards" argument is a bit weird? After all, if all these cards weren't used for mining but for gaming, wouldn't the environmental outcome be the same? I mean, is there any inherent upside to burning tons of energy for games vs burning it for a cryptocu…

Sure, ultimately gaming is entirely optional, but alas it's no different than other pastimes in that regard. Games make a lot of people very happy though and provide employment to millions (?) of people, so personally I'd put it higher in the needs hierarchy than crypto-currencies. Not being able to buy the latest graphics card due to high demand surely is a "first-world problem", but for NVIDIA it might become a problem if the situation persists, as they risk to anger a lot of loyal customers.

Also, gamers and professional users will likely still buy graphics cards in 5-10 years (and more so), while I'm pretty sure miners will have either given up or switched to more custom solutions like ASICs by then (which has already happened with Bitcoin). So NVIDIA also risks losing a long-term market to please a potential short-lived market, hence I think they do the right thing by trying to disentangle these two market segments for good.

Re: Nvidia Limits RTX 3060 Hash Rate

#20

Post by Havoc » Sun, Feb 21, 2021, 11:28 AM UTC

pornel wrote: post #4

I have no sympathy for miners, but purely from software freedom perspective this is maximally evil: closed-source software that decides what you can use your hardware for. The CMP version is a straight-to-landfill product. As soon as it stops being profitable for mining it will have zero resale value, and become e-waste.

Good point re landfill - haven't seen anyone else raise that