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Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65

ercot.com

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Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65

#131

Post by monadic5 »

Florinator wrote: post #56
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to exclude the market from the equation is for the state to have total control over the entire energy pipeline, from pulling natural gas out of the ground to the power plants to delivery. You can't simply mandate that energy prices will be a certain amount if the power plants still have to buy natural gas and other power sources from the free market. If you tried, the power plants would simply shut down…

I think you've just described Germany, which has the highest electricity prices in the world.

Germany isn't an international embarrassment at the moment.

Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65

#132

Post by [deleted] »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #37
ggm wrote: post #22

The market in power should only exist to optimise. Its become a rei-ified good in its own right, and is being gamed by bad faith actors with stranded assets (coal, oil) to make a point about green power and capital investment money they want. It's possible no power network could have avoided some of this, but its patently obvious a regulated power utility function needs investment, and the market is not the best mode…

The only way to exclude the market from the equation is for the state to have total control over the entire energy pipeline, from pulling natural gas out of the ground to the power plants to delivery. You can't simply mandate that energy prices will be a certain amount if the power plants still have to buy natural gas and other power sources from the free market. If you tried, the power plants would simply shut down…

[deleted]

Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65

#133

Post by chaganated »

Bombthecat wrote: post #125
chaganated wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Dude, this might work on reddit. But not here. Give it up.

You should read his other comments. Most are quickly killed. Not sure if bot or schizo, but interesting.

Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65

#134

Post by carbonguy »

godmode2019 wrote: post #128
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the short term affect of cooling because less energy makes it to the surface That's absolutely not true, and I've never even heard climate change skeptics argue that.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/02/210202164535.h...

This article is referring to the effect of a class of compounds called "aerosols," which does not include CO2. Aerosols do prevent some fraction of solar energy from reaching Earth's surface, but this is separate from the effect of increased CO2 concentrations.

Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65

#135

Post by underwater »

mrDmrTmrJ wrote: post #54
Osiris wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the market solves all problems why would the government even need to mandate winterization? Wouldn't smart businesses have done the risk analysis and done the work? Maybe the problem here is that loss of electrical power has a significant external cost that isn't absorbed by the utilities. In other words, the cost of winterization was more than the cost to fix the damage to their equipment but doesn't take into ac…

Strongly agree. Free markets often fail to adopt low cost protections to tail events. E.g. the free market didn't get us 100% of new cars having seatbelts and airbags, government requirements did. And those standards were fought by the car manufacturers. My point is we need regulations to mandate our energy system to be resilient to outlier events (heat/cold/flooding/high wind etc.) and that's a government function s…

I don't see how the free market could have ever succeeded here. Even if it somehow accounted for events of the last week: the lost lives, damaged properties, and economic impact, it was billed as a once-in-100 year event.

Which company is going to take a hit to their profits each quarter so they can prepare properly? The companies who don't will be more competitive and successful right up until a freak event actually occurs. And if that happens, the absolute worst case is the your under prepared company goes under. Unlimited upsides and very limited downsides.

Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65

#136

Post by Camillo »

Osiris wrote: post #35
mrDmrTmrJ wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I reach a very different conclusion. Comparing ERCOT to other grids (PJM or CALISO), ERCOT system has delivered very low prices and very high levels of renewable penetrations. PJM wastes billions of dollars a year in capacity payments to coal plants for no reason. What you write, "The market in power should only exist to optimise" well, that is exactly what ERCOT does. As for the disaster last week, that wa…

If the market solves all problems why would the government even need to mandate winterization? Wouldn't smart businesses have done the risk analysis and done the work? Maybe the problem here is that loss of electrical power has a significant external cost that isn't absorbed by the utilities. In other words, the cost of winterization was more than the cost to fix the damage to their equipment but doesn't take into ac…

> If the market solves all problems why would the government even need to mandate winterization?

But Texas has a government and it _hadn't_ mandated winterization. So it doesn't seem to have done better than the market in practice.

Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65

#137

Post by visarga »

ben_bai wrote: post #7
tankenmate wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just found another HN article, it appears that most people outside of Texas and/or the US are being blocked.

Indeed. Just use any old http proxysite which offers an US proxy.

I tried, not any US proxy works.

Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65

#138

Post by refurb »

monadic5 wrote: post #131
Florinator wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've just described Germany, which has the highest electricity prices in the world.

Germany isn't an international embarrassment at the moment.

International embarrassment?

Didn’t Europe have a heat wave 5-10 years ago where tens of thousands died?

I’d be careful throwing stones about extreme weather if I lived in a glasshouse too.

Re: Clearing price for supplying power to Texas grid –$31.65

#140

Post by godmode2019 »

asterialite wrote: post #95
godmode2019 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but how does a trace element affect the polar vortex/ jetstream bending. It doesn't. Its not a good argument if all weather situations can be explained by "climate change". It's too hot - climate change It's too cold - climate change What you are describing is called weather.

There's lots of ways global warming could lead to colder winters.[0] For example, the temperature differential between Arctic and mid-latitude air normally keeps the polar vortex contained. As this differential decreases, however, the polar vortex becomes less contained. As such, the maximum latitude reached by the jet stream increases with the Arctic's temperature. This creates colder weather in some places. [1] [2]…

That would be true is their was not already well defined explanations.

This article from January talks about SSG and how it will affect the polar vortex in North America. (It's paywalled so using the google URL)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/api.nationalgeographic.com/dist...

" The polar vortex is coming—and raising the odds for intense winter weather In the stratosphere over Siberia, temperatures recently jumped nearly 100 degrees Fahrenheit, shoving the polar vortex off its North Pole perch."

This article is very good at talking about what we know from SSG. It has nothing to do with carbon.

https://eos.org/features/how-sudden-stratospheric-warming-af...

You have to be trolling. I just read those articles you sent me and they agree with what I am saying. Carbon causes slow and gradual warming but their are still natural cycles that 'cause the snow that skepics get so worked up about'.

I said co2 does not cause cooling. Nothing you provided even mentioned that. The only thing was from the first article 'scientists are looking into it' related to co2 causing cooling.

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