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New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

academictimes.com

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Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#181

Post by neltnerb »

Havoc wrote: post #121

The diversity of responses in this thread as to what the real problem is is deeply alarming. Apparently hn - presumably an educated crowd - can't even agree what the problem is let alone how to fix it.

The "real problem" is a futile entity to identify.

There are an awful lot of real problems.

I really like this technology. It's not going to fix the world. I like that the source is biological because it won't depend to the same extent on petrochemical supplies. I like that it is designed thoughtfully to have good mechanical properties while being nearly entirely recoverable. It's clever.

I don't understand the hate. It's a silver BB but it's at least cool tech.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#182

Post by neltnerb »

127 wrote: post #150
Animats wrote: post #67

"The one disadvantage of the new materials Mecking identified was their cost." Oops. Biodegradable plastics are available. They're useful for things likely to be discarded with ordinary trash, like food packaging. Some are made from starches.

I've heard composting PLA is pretty bad for the environment as it produces a lot of methane, which is much worse greenhouse gas compared to CO2. It also seems PLA doesn't degrade in landfills. It requires a built to purpose composting facility.

It contaminates compost if you put PLA into a regular composter. It requires a special industrial compost facility to handle it and most aren't.

So it's trash.

If you put PLA in the recycling bin it is making sorting even worse because if you get a bit of PLA mixed in with your other plastic it's not going to be good. So it's definitely not even slightly recyclable.

So it's trash.

PLA is trash. Unless you have an industrial composter. It's horrible.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#183

Post by neltnerb »

mnouquet wrote: post #42
tomcam wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TIL. Can you tell me more about the recycling process for PLA?

Shred, heat and extrude.

Wait, wait, let's not give the wrong impression. Yes, you can recycle PLA to an extent but you can't mix it in with your recylables. Few cities can recyle PS, much less PLA or at least they aren't set up to handle it.

If you are curious about the tech, sure, it's recyclable. For practical purposes you may as well throw it in the trash ahead of time and avoid contaminating the recycling. Plus if you try to put it in most commercial composting it will not degrade enough to be usable and has to get removed to avoid damaging the compost. So if you happen to not have the right kind of composting facility you can't handle it.

Yeah, it's on paper no worse than other plastics, but you have to have a plan to handle it -- it's not just a thing you can toss in the recycling bin.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#184

Post by TedShiller »

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #7

Plastic recycling seems heavily motivated by emotion and virtue signaling. In reality, only about 5% of our crude oil use goes towards plastic. If we rolled out EVs, and then just burned all the plastic trash (using waste-to-energy plants), we would still be far ahead. The biggest challenges with plastics are hormone disruption, and microplastics (particularly in the 3rd world without sufficient landfill or W2E infra…

Have you seen what lithium mining does to the earth? If you haven’t, I suggest you check it out. EV cars are not the answer.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#185

Post by samatman »

jrowen wrote: post #45
snarf21 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although you are right, I don't think it is that people don't know this. Recycle is easy, through it in the blue bucket. Reduce requires a complete re-imaging of our society. This won't happen without substantial taxation on plastics and single use packaging. But that is a bad way to get re-elected and how will we get next day shippping?

To go a bit further, I feel like "reduce" just isn't really in the vocabulary of living organisms. Once any particular cat is out of its bag, it's not going back in (though I'd love to hear some examples to the contrary). It seems like our best bet really is an ever more Rube Goldberg-ian stack of attempted fixes for the problems we create.

Modern cultures have substantially reduced their use of tobacco and alcohol, have reduced their birthrate below replacement, cut 95% of trans fats out of their diets, and use practically no tetraethyl lead and no DDT at all.

We don't have to continue using endocrine disrupting plastics either. It can't be a blanket ban, we use them in too many places. But they can be phased out.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#186

Post by cromat3 »

ars wrote: post #170
ehnto wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably you hope the US has a long and prosperous future beyond our generation, so it's a problem that will need to be solved at some point. The US consumes 70 million plastic water bottles a day, just disposable water bottles. Consider all other plastic waste, and consider that just because there is uninhabited land doesn't mean you can economically put rubbish in it. I must admit I am surprised that anyone needs…

There is enough landfill space effectively forever. It's really not a problem. > What makes you question the need for recycling? The environment makes me question it. Everything I've seen shows recycling anything except metal is bad for the environment. We only do it because it makes people "feel good". The right thing to do with: Metal: recycle it Glass: bury it Paper: bury it Plastic: burn it Everything else: bury…

Why is glass recycling bad for the environment?

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#187

Post by edanm »

enchiridion wrote: post #180
edanm wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides all the other great points commenters have raised, I'd like to address this: > If we rolled out EVs, and then just burned all the plastic trash (using waste-to-energy plants), we would still be far ahead. Well yes. But... we're probably not going to just "rolled out EVs" so easily. Every step will most likely seem small, because it will be, because that's the only thing we can realistically, politically do. B…

I get your point, but no. This is the type of thinking that led to the stagnation of the auto industry. Why not roll out EVs that easily? The most profitable case company is doing it.... why would anyone go anything else?

> I get your point, but no. This is the type of thinking that led to the stagnation of the auto industry.

I'm sorry, I don't follow. In what way?

> Why not roll out EVs that easily? The most profitable case company is doing it.... why would anyone go anything else?

I'm all in favor of rolling out EVs. I'm in favor of new technical innovations. I'm in favor of better regulations. In short, I'm in favor of doing many things at once to combat one of our biggest emergencies.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#188

Post by digidob »

systemvoltage wrote: post #173
eggsmediumrare wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are running out of land. I don't disagree with your point that landfill space isn't "a problem." But if you zoom out and look at inefficient land use more generally (like fields for feed corn), you find that there is for all intents and purposes no nature left in many of the places we occupy.

If we are fine with Cemeteries in extremely valuable land in major city centers, I’m fine with a square mile landfill in Oklahoma.

I’m not fine with either.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#189

Post by [deleted] »

dEnigma wrote: post #89
beckman466 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or... we could not use so much plastic, and make actual bricks to build ‘millions of houses’. Since you sound so excited, are you going to live in the first plastic house with your family? I think suggestions like this are super demeaning. I often see them coming from privileged knowledge workers, who are eager to share ‘free ideas‘/psuedo-solutions as a sort of ‘charity’ for poor people (and people in the global sou…

You're reading a lot into that short parent comment. Maybe you should be a bit more generous in your interpretation of other people's words.

[deleted]

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#190

Post by shawnz »

jounker wrote: post #165
DenisM wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The countries which are the most preoccupied with recycling plastics, such as the US, are also the least likely to throw they trash into the ocean. Plastic bags do no harm buried in the landfill, and we’re not running out of land.

I see plastic bags on the beach. I walk along the creeks nearby, and I see plastic bags and plastic garbage. I go for a hike in the sierras, and I find plastic garbage. I bike along the roads in town, and I see plastic bags in the gutter. I look down the incline beside the road and there are plastic bags in the trees. Is the USA as bad as Morocco? No. Is plastic waste a problem? Yes.

Littering/dumping is a much different issue than disposing of your waste through the wrong channel. The problem you are describing isn't because people use the garbage instead of the recycling.
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