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United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine

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Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine

#351

Post by baptistejamin »

I don’t really understand why this information is now #1 on HackerNews.

Boeing 777 engines are the world’s largest turbofans and pw4000 Engine, involved in this explosion is in production since the 80/90, and is already used on other Airframes like a330.

I know this accident looks impressive, but engine explosions like this one are things that happens years over years.

On Airbus a380, similar explosions occurred.

This kind of explosions looks very impressive, but those are things that happens quite a lot in aviation Industry.

Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine

#352

Post by Xylakant »

kwertyoowiyop wrote: post #326
lrossi wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can draw some parallels between that and a healthy SRE culture. Except for the casualties, of course. Wondering if the first SREs who created the guidelines had aviation industry experience.

Aviation regulations are written in blood. SRE regulations are written in lost weekends.

Depends on what systems the SRE is managing or even on the downstream clients relying on their work. Around Y2K a bug took the out the emergency call application for the fire department in Berlin at midnight New Year’s Eve. People died because dispatch was not available. It’s an IT system where people die if you mess up. AFAIR in one of the earlier prolonged AWS outages, some sort of medical provider failed and people were at risk. It’s not all just display ads on websites.

Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine

#353

Post by hugh-avherald »

whatever1 wrote: post #277

Maybe a system for emergency detaching of the failed engine with a parachute would help aleviate the consequences of flying with a uncontrollably vibrating fireball?

The system you propose already exists: fuse pins hold the nacelle to the wing, and ensure the engine separates cleanly from the aircraft if vibrations exceed dangerous levels.

Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine

#354

Post by billfruit »

azalemeth wrote: post #184
dmoy wrote: post #134

That quoted ground observer. Do they work for the NTSB or something? I am 110% certain that if I saw a plane on fire in the sky, I would not have the presence of mind to remember the term "cloud deck", let alone the rest of those details. Ground observer: "Good sir, I do say that the cloud deck was quite low so I didn't get a good look, but the engine was mildly louder than usual, and possibly had smoke, but perhaps…

It's very likely that they're an AvHerald reader. It's the absolute de facto gold standard website in its field, and sensationalism and drama is not appreciated -- a large chunk of the usual audience are aviation professionals. My dad was a pilot, and I've got some few hours myself. You can bet that if either of us watched this event happen, we'd mentally be documenting it as best as we possibly can, both to try to p…

Only looked up Aviation Herald after you mentioned. Very informative, almost HN like, but even more dense and topical.

Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine

#355

Post by russum »

cko wrote: post #343
maweki wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first Final Destination movie starts with a ground observer scene of about that distance of a plane crashing right after takeoff. I don't know whether your age fits, but maybe you saw this and recalled it in your sleep every so often.

I have the same recurring dream a few times a year. I believe for me they started after 9/11. Add that to the recurring dreams of losing all teeth, going to school only to realize there's a 20 page essay due, dinosaur attacks (inspired by Jurassic Park), and barely missing my school bus (that was just this morning). Btw I'm 35 now.

Ugh, that "loosing all teeth" dream is very disturbing, quite annoying and even painful! Good thing is that I usually don't get it unless I had quite a few drinks the night before.

Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine

#356

Post by Stupulous »

laurent92 wrote: post #214
GekkePrutser wrote: post #135

That's crazy, in the Netherlands today there was another flight that dropped engine parts (much smaller though, they're said to have been turbine blades) that hit cars and people. It was also an airliner (747-400). Considering how rare an occurrence is, it's really weird to have both happen on the exact same day. https://www.airlive.net/breaking-turbine-blades-of-a-boeing-... By the way I'm surprised that fire keeps…

Random = clusters happen. In fact, mathematicians were hired during the Battle of England to estimate whether the Germans were aiming for specific buildings (“why is there a cluster of bombs around this church???” or around some secret offices) or just spreading randomly. Verdict: They weren’t aiming, it was random chance that bombs made some clusters onto some buildings. This is what random looks like: No even distr…

I think it depends on how frequent the thing in question is. If an engine losing parts is something that happens yearly, twice in one day is still pretty rare.

But then you have to deal with degrees of freedom as well. If your search space is just 'two uncorrelated ~yearly events', there's enough of them that you'll always find false positives.

Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine

#357

Post by danaliv »

codingdave wrote: post #169
valuearb wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 777 has been flying for 25 years with almost no fatal accidents. Unless your flight will be flying over Russian anti-aircraft missile batteries or through a wormhole above Malaysia, you should be perfectly safe.

Another way of looking at it is that after flying and accumulating 25 years of wear and tear without major incident, we now have seen a repeatable flaw that these aircraft may encounter due to their age.

Until the NTSB investigates, there's no way to know whether age has anything to do with it. It might. It might not. There could be a common cause, or there isn't.

We don't know yet.

Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine

#358

Post by [deleted] »

sn41 wrote: post #268
dmoy wrote: post #134

That quoted ground observer. Do they work for the NTSB or something? I am 110% certain that if I saw a plane on fire in the sky, I would not have the presence of mind to remember the term "cloud deck", let alone the rest of those details. Ground observer: "Good sir, I do say that the cloud deck was quite low so I didn't get a good look, but the engine was mildly louder than usual, and possibly had smoke, but perhaps…

Pretty sure he was a pilot or a sea captain. I definitely would not refer to the right hand engine as "starboard engine".

[deleted]

Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine

#359

Post by danaliv »

TangoFox wrote: post #260
danaliv wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ll find that there’s a gap between what the books say about ATC comms and how things are actually done. No one is being pedantic in an emergency.

If anyone is curious about what the books say, US Air Traffic Controllers use phraseology prescribed by FAA General Order 7110.65. Also known as the 7110 or the point sixty-five , it includes rules that Air Traffic Controllers must follow to ensure safe and effective operations. So if you're a pilot and are wondering why you have a Hold For Release or are told "unable", you might find the reason in this document. The…

Happy to see a controller here. Thanks for all the clearances. :)

Re: United B772 at Denver on Feb 20th 2021, engine inlet separates from engine

#360

Post by eru »

ghotli wrote: post #310
throwawayboise wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aircraft undergo regular preventative maintenance checks, with letter codes A - D. The D check being the most comprehensive, it occurs every 6-10 years and basically the entire aircraft is taken apart and inspected, looking for among other things anything like stress fractures, corrosion, unusual wear, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_maintenance_checks#D_... A commercial aircraft does not just accumulate…

Great context. I gained a lot of respect for aviation's use of checklists and procedures from the book 'The Checklist Manifesto' In this case, something obviously went awry and it's both engineering, planning, and a miracle no one died or was crushed from debris from above. Regardless, comments like yours leave me feeling far more confident in this sort of thing.

> In this case, something obviously went awry and it's both engineering, planning, and a miracle no one died or was crushed from debris from above. [...]

Yes, though even something going wrong doesn't necessarily mean that we'd need to change any procedures.

Sensible procedures bring risks down to acceptable levels at an acceptable price. That level of risk is generally still more than 0%.

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