Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Second Citizenships, Residencies, and/or Temporary Relocation

lesswrong.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 309 posts

Re: Second Citizenships, Residencies, and/or Temporary Relocation

#71

Post by ornornor »

vecinu wrote: post #58
disabled wrote: post #25

I am a dual citizen of the United States and Croatia (European Union citizen). I am culturally American, and I have spent the vast majority of my life in the US. I left the US about a month before the lockdowns started. I have been living in Croatia for the past year. I can technically live/work/retire in any EU/EFTA country (minus Lichtenstein--has an immigration quota), due to having Freedom of Movement rights. In…

> But, it is way, way, less stressful living here, just in general. Americans have no idea. The taxes are worth the peace of mind along with the stability it gives society. Can you please go on with this point and provide some 1-1 examples you've personally seen? I keep dreaming and have, for the last 5 years, about leaving the US and living in Europe but I feel like I'm throwing away an enormous economic opportunity…

> leaving the US and living in Europe but I feel like I'm throwing away an enormous economic opportunity

Check out Luxembourg, Switzerland, and Lichtenstein. These places pay incredibly well and once you factor in the cost of healthcare and general quality of life, the US looks like a bad joke. These three countries’ job market is accessible with a Schengen visa.

Re: Second Citizenships, Residencies, and/or Temporary Relocation

#72

Post by davchana »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #65
davchana wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have to pay taxes and social security in the country where you reside, not where you are a citizen and/or work (mostly). Only US & Eriteria taxes its residents/citizens' income, no matter where it generated. So a US born baby (us citizen by birth), moved to Europe back with parents, or even an adult us citizen working outside US has to file the IRS Return. Every year.

Not if you're yearly income is less than $12000, and I don't think they'll go after you even if you make $100 thousand, because you still won't have to pay any US even if you do file (most countries have agreements with the US to avoid double-taxation below a certain amount). I know a lot of American citizens who live permanently in Canada, and not all of them file US taxes, including my mother in the decades she's l…

Technically, by law, return is required for any income over $0.50, no taxes till world wide $12000(US+NonUS) or $107000 Foreign/NonUS income, but still, IRS expects a return filed. In practice, yes, not much problem.

Re: Second Citizenships, Residencies, and/or Temporary Relocation

#74

Post by ido »

cinquemb wrote: post #12
tenpies wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Canadians citizenship ceremony to me was fascinating, because it begins with an aboriginal land acknowledgement. The statement is quite literally "the very ground we're standing on doesn't even belong to us, but here we are saying that you are a citizen of . . . clearly not the land". Their demographic experiment is also very interesting. About 10% of all Canadians don't actually live in Canada - that is an extre…

> Being Canadian will be a sort of administrative identity more than anything resembling a citizenship. This is pretty much how my US citizenship is now after living abroad for about 6 years and having a long term bearish outlook on NA, EU, China, Japan (demographics, sovereign/corp debt + real yields).

Which countries do you not have a bearish outlook on?

Re: Second Citizenships, Residencies, and/or Temporary Relocation

#75

Post by andrewmcwatters »

disabled wrote: post #25

I am a dual citizen of the United States and Croatia (European Union citizen). I am culturally American, and I have spent the vast majority of my life in the US. I left the US about a month before the lockdowns started. I have been living in Croatia for the past year. I can technically live/work/retire in any EU/EFTA country (minus Lichtenstein--has an immigration quota), due to having Freedom of Movement rights. In…

> But, it is way, way, less stressful living here, just in general. Americans have no idea. The taxes are worth the peace of mind along with the stability it gives society.

I don’t know what it is about Europeans on American websites telling us how great it is to have 1/3 less PPP and higher taxes, but I sure as hell don’t want my taxes any higher.

A grand total of none of my international friends have anywhere near the wealth, nor earning potential I do, and they never will. It’s an exceedingly large, compounding edge.

American policy makers can’t even use our existing tax revenues in fiscally responsible ways as it is. Why would I vote for more taxation?

Everyone knows our healthcare system is asinine. It doesn’t require more money to fix.

Re: Second Citizenships, Residencies, and/or Temporary Relocation

#76

Post by disabled »

vecinu wrote: post #58
disabled wrote: post #25

I am a dual citizen of the United States and Croatia (European Union citizen). I am culturally American, and I have spent the vast majority of my life in the US. I left the US about a month before the lockdowns started. I have been living in Croatia for the past year. I can technically live/work/retire in any EU/EFTA country (minus Lichtenstein--has an immigration quota), due to having Freedom of Movement rights. In…

> But, it is way, way, less stressful living here, just in general. Americans have no idea. The taxes are worth the peace of mind along with the stability it gives society. Can you please go on with this point and provide some 1-1 examples you've personally seen? I keep dreaming and have, for the last 5 years, about leaving the US and living in Europe but I feel like I'm throwing away an enormous economic opportunity…

The European Union member states subscribe to multiple fundamental ideas, one of which is the principle of solidarity.

This means that there is a strong social safety net, and we take care of the vulnerable. I do not have to worry about the cost of my medical care or other social needs. I pay my taxes, do my part as a citizen, and I know I will be taken care of.

Essentially, because of this I do not have to live in fear.

I basically chose my field of work due to the need for health insurance, as an American. When I was at university, some semesters I was basically going to university just to keep and maintain health insurance, when I was sick beyond belief. It was unbelievably stressful. I never would have needed to do this if I was a Croatian citizen at that time.

I also do not have to accumulate huge amounts of wealth to ensure I am cared for, like I would in America. I do not have to be on a hamster wheel that never stops spinning, due to the principle of solidarity.

I simply get to be free. I do not have to work a job just for benefits or for pay. I do not have to work long grueling hours.

Anyways, the best country to get EU citizenship in, usually for people on here is Republic of Ireland, which permits dual citizenship. You can get citizenship there in 5 years. Besides getting Freedom of Movement rights to live/work/retire in the EU/EFTA (minus Lichtenstein), you also get rights to live/work/retire in the UK, due to treaties and historical ties.

Also, most people here are skilled workers in tech. In Ireland, for many people here on this site, you can get a job visa to Ireland relatively easily, without a skilled worker test (which means that the Irish employer has to demonstrate that they are not taking a job from an EU citizen by hiring you--the documentation required can be harsh for the employer), as there is an exemption: https://enterprise.gov.ie/en/What-We-Do/Workplace-and-Skills...

Re: Second Citizenships, Residencies, and/or Temporary Relocation

#77

Post by nyokodo »

refurb wrote: post #17
Animats wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The US used to be quite strict about this. It still is if you acquire US citizenship by naturalization. "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen " The deal for people who are already US citizens is easier.

The US does not require you to give up any other citizenship if you get US citizenship by naturalization.

No it doesn’t. Although, the oath does place limits on the exercise of any foreign citizenship. For instance a Brit who is a naturalized US Citizenship can’t run for Parliament because it would require them to give an oath of loyalty to the Queen.

Re: Second Citizenships, Residencies, and/or Temporary Relocation

#78

Post by mfDjB »

atweiden wrote: post #15

I left the US pre-pandemic for a country that eradicated Covid, and couldn't agree more with the author's decision to leave. Particularly if you're in your 20s and fully remote, I'd highly encourage you to look into Australia or New Zealand's working holiday visa. For fans of E.Asia, the Taiwan gold card [1][2] may be of interest. [1]: https://notebook.wesleyac.com/taiwan/ [2]: https://notebook.wesleyac.com/taiwan-go…

Having been under lockdown (or more broadly hard restrictions) for at least 9 months of the last year I've come to the opposite conclusion, I would like to be a dual national of the USA just to take advantage of the idea that I can vote with my feet when it comes to state governance issues. If I don't like lockdown policy, I can move somewhere that has a lighter touch (like from NYC to Miami which I know a lot of people have done).

In the UK (especially post-brexit), NZ and Australia it feels like being trapped. Travel is restricted both internally (sporadically) and externally and the regional governments have more or less the same policies, so I don't see anyway to vote with my feet here that doesn't come with a high cost.

Re: Second Citizenships, Residencies, and/or Temporary Relocation

#79

Post by cko »

vecinu wrote: post #58
disabled wrote: post #25

I am a dual citizen of the United States and Croatia (European Union citizen). I am culturally American, and I have spent the vast majority of my life in the US. I left the US about a month before the lockdowns started. I have been living in Croatia for the past year. I can technically live/work/retire in any EU/EFTA country (minus Lichtenstein--has an immigration quota), due to having Freedom of Movement rights. In…

> But, it is way, way, less stressful living here, just in general. Americans have no idea. The taxes are worth the peace of mind along with the stability it gives society. Can you please go on with this point and provide some 1-1 examples you've personally seen? I keep dreaming and have, for the last 5 years, about leaving the US and living in Europe but I feel like I'm throwing away an enormous economic opportunity…

I am semi retired (unemployed) living in Romania, but you'd likely want to be in Portugal for the cost of living, weather, and food. Also they have a ten year tax friendly program called Non Habitual Residency. I'm currently aiming for Portugal.

Yes, salaries are low all across the EU (Switzerland is not in the EU) and taxes are high, so ideally I recommend working remotely and bouncing between Portugal and Spain or finding a post retirement hobby (easier said than done).

(By the way I did consider Croatia too as it is similarly inexpensive, but Romanian is an easier language and I already knew people here from previous travels).

Re: Second Citizenships, Residencies, and/or Temporary Relocation

#80

Post by frosted-flakes »

davchana wrote: post #72
frosted-flakes wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if you're yearly income is less than $12000, and I don't think they'll go after you even if you make $100 thousand, because you still won't have to pay any US even if you do file (most countries have agreements with the US to avoid double-taxation below a certain amount). I know a lot of American citizens who live permanently in Canada, and not all of them file US taxes, including my mother in the decades she's l…

Technically, by law, return is required for any income over $0.50, no taxes till world wide $12000(US+NonUS) or $107000 Foreign/NonUS income, but still, IRS expects a return filed. In practice, yes, not much problem.

There are advantages to filing even when it's not required. Oddly enough, the US government still paid me $1200 + $600 of COVID economic relief (auto-deposited to my US bank account) even though I haven't lived in the US for many years. I didn't think I'd be eligible, but apparently I am (just in case, I haven't spent the money yet). It's weird that they gave the money so freely.
Post reply on HN