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New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

academictimes.com

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Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#171

Post by EGreg »

DenisM wrote: post #136
jvanderbot wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe plastic recycling is not motivated by oil use primarily. I believe it is motivated by trash accumulation in oceans and the food chain (microplastics). There are a ton of areas of the world where plastic just piles up.

The countries which are the most preoccupied with recycling plastics, such as the US, are also the least likely to throw they trash into the ocean. Plastic bags do no harm buried in the landfill, and we’re not running out of land.

Plastic has found its way into water everywhere on Earth [1] and they don't degrade for centuries. Instead of making people recycle, why not tax the externalities upstream and nudge corporations into using biodegradeable materials?

[1] https://qz.com/1299485/antarcticas-waters-now-contain-plasti...

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#172

Post by EGreg »

smabie wrote: post #166
ehnto wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on your local council. Recycling is a very local issue, and so it's something communities can and should tackle head on. But you are right, the amount of councils sending recycling to landfill is very sad.

Why is it sad? Why does plastic need to be recycled?

Here are some reasons:

https://abcnews.go.com/International/plastic-garbage-flip-fl...

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20180426-why-plastics-are...

https://www.surfrider.org/coastal-blog/entry/microplastics-f...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ocean-plastic-liberals-fact...

And it's only going to get worse unless we do something about it. Recycling is far worse than just taxing negative externalities and making the companies upstream use biodegradeable materials.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#173

Post by systemvoltage »

eggsmediumrare wrote: post #167
DenisM wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The countries which are the most preoccupied with recycling plastics, such as the US, are also the least likely to throw they trash into the ocean. Plastic bags do no harm buried in the landfill, and we’re not running out of land.

We are running out of land. I don't disagree with your point that landfill space isn't "a problem." But if you zoom out and look at inefficient land use more generally (like fields for feed corn), you find that there is for all intents and purposes no nature left in many of the places we occupy.

If we are fine with Cemeteries in extremely valuable land in major city centers, I’m fine with a square mile landfill in Oklahoma.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#174

Post by infogulch »

johnisgood wrote: post #161
donavanm wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Current biodegradable plastics are an industry smokescreen. The biodegradable portion is generally plant starch used as a binder. The “plastic” is just that, a very stable long lived micro/nano plastic. The big chunks break down, and the plastics continue to move through the environment and bioaccumulate. The work towards truly biodegrade plastic is generally from the other end; identifying or making organisms that c…

What about hemp or mushrooms?

We overuse plastic when paper would suffice. But then some worry about cutting down trees for paper. Hemp is a pretty good crop for the natural fibers needed in paper production (and many other things besides) and could replace trees as raw material source for paper.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#175

Post by AnthonyMouse »

jvanderbot wrote: post #26
ArkanExplorer wrote: post #7

Plastic recycling seems heavily motivated by emotion and virtue signaling. In reality, only about 5% of our crude oil use goes towards plastic. If we rolled out EVs, and then just burned all the plastic trash (using waste-to-energy plants), we would still be far ahead. The biggest challenges with plastics are hormone disruption, and microplastics (particularly in the 3rd world without sufficient landfill or W2E infra…

I believe plastic recycling is not motivated by oil use primarily. I believe it is motivated by trash accumulation in oceans and the food chain (microplastics). There are a ton of areas of the world where plastic just piles up.

> I believe it is motivated by trash accumulation in oceans and the food chain (microplastics). There are a ton of areas of the world where plastic just piles up.

But then how are we not at the same solution? Burn the plastic garbage (in place of coal or natural gas) to generate electricity.

Even better if they were plant-based plastics to begin with, because then it's renewable energy.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#176

Post by spookthesunset »

elil17 wrote: post #164
DenisM wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s talk about the US then. Do you agree we’re not running out of land? If so, what is the point of recycling?

For plastic and glass, to make you feel better. Even if you're concerned about land use, they end up throwing away a lot of what goes into the recycling anyway. With glass especially, it is actually worse for the enviroment to reuse the glass because of the energy and water use associated with cleaning it. (There's also an argument to be made that we should continue to recycle plastic so the public is in the habit of…

It is amazing how much stuff you can compost. In my armchair quarterback opinion compost everything you can and recycle only metal.

If people are pissed about how much stuff they are throwing into the trash... go look at the incredible amount of packaging material that gets thrown out....

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#177

Post by spookthesunset »

ars wrote: post #170
ehnto wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably you hope the US has a long and prosperous future beyond our generation, so it's a problem that will need to be solved at some point. The US consumes 70 million plastic water bottles a day, just disposable water bottles. Consider all other plastic waste, and consider that just because there is uninhabited land doesn't mean you can economically put rubbish in it. I must admit I am surprised that anyone needs…

There is enough landfill space effectively forever. It's really not a problem. > What makes you question the need for recycling? The environment makes me question it. Everything I've seen shows recycling anything except metal is bad for the environment. We only do it because it makes people "feel good". The right thing to do with: Metal: recycle it Glass: bury it Paper: bury it Plastic: burn it Everything else: bury…

You can compost food waste paper like paper towels, cardboard takeout boxes, etc... compost makes a lot of sense.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#178

Post by spookthesunset »

JulianMorrison wrote: post #141
derefr wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about asphalt with plastics mixed into the underwater, but not the top layer?

Deferring the problem. Roads get dug up and relaid, roads get abandoned, maybe a few years down the line, we won't be using roads. Mentally insert "Back to the Future 2" clip here. And so a few decades later, we return to the problem.

I forget where I read this but asphalt is perhaps the most recycled plastic out there. Asphalt can be ripped up and then remelted right back into place or moved somewhere else.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#179

Post by edanm »

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #7

Plastic recycling seems heavily motivated by emotion and virtue signaling. In reality, only about 5% of our crude oil use goes towards plastic. If we rolled out EVs, and then just burned all the plastic trash (using waste-to-energy plants), we would still be far ahead. The biggest challenges with plastics are hormone disruption, and microplastics (particularly in the 3rd world without sufficient landfill or W2E infra…

Besides all the other great points commenters have raised, I'd like to address this:

> If we rolled out EVs, and then just burned all the plastic trash (using waste-to-energy plants), we would still be far ahead.

Well yes. But... we're probably not going to just "rolled out EVs" so easily. Every step will most likely seem small, because it will be, because that's the only thing we can realistically, politically do. But that doesn't make it not worth doing.

We may as well say "if we just stopped using electricity we'd be way ahead". Not a good basis for comparison, and even if it were, it's still only like 20%-30% percent of oil use (off the top of my head), so even that won't unilaterally solve all problems.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#180

Post by enchiridion »

edanm wrote: post #179
ArkanExplorer wrote: post #7

Plastic recycling seems heavily motivated by emotion and virtue signaling. In reality, only about 5% of our crude oil use goes towards plastic. If we rolled out EVs, and then just burned all the plastic trash (using waste-to-energy plants), we would still be far ahead. The biggest challenges with plastics are hormone disruption, and microplastics (particularly in the 3rd world without sufficient landfill or W2E infra…

Besides all the other great points commenters have raised, I'd like to address this: > If we rolled out EVs, and then just burned all the plastic trash (using waste-to-energy plants), we would still be far ahead. Well yes. But... we're probably not going to just "rolled out EVs" so easily. Every step will most likely seem small, because it will be, because that's the only thing we can realistically, politically do. B…

I get your point, but no. This is the type of thinking that led to the stagnation of the auto industry.

Why not roll out EVs that easily? The most profitable case company is doing it.... why would anyone go anything else?

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