Resorted by installs https://wnpp.debian.net/?page=1&sort=installs%2Fdesc
You have a point here: I have made that^^ the new default sort order now.
Debian Packages That Need Lovin'
81–90 of 151 posts
Re: Debian Packages That Need Lovin'
#82If I want to help, what should I do?
Well, you need to get competent enough before you take on a role as package maintainer. For start, imagine that you are one. First, choose a package that really matters to you. On a daily basis. A package that you yourself would NEED to have it up2date the next day a new version is out. Get the source deb and try to build it. Usually it's not very hard. Then, try to do the same on all the debian variants (unstable, s…
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Re: Debian Packages That Need Lovin'
#83This is an off topic question, but is Debian a good alternative to Gentoo? Over the last three years I'm assuming Gentoo is so low on resources that they are just removing packages left and right. Every few months my install is broken due to this. The main reason I'm still with gentoo is inertia and I really like the tools and just the way things work. The problem really is the portage tree (basically the repo) which…
I think that's a trick question, Debian's outdated but stable binary software is in many way completely antithetical to Gentoo's philosophy, but on the other hand, it's still Linux, and absolutely a viable alternative regardless. I'd love to hear some more opinions about the state of the portage tree though, as a new and naive, but dedicated, Gentoo user, I don't have a sense of it's history or the state of the proje…
The thing I'm imagining is that if there was something I wanted the USE flags for, I'd just end up compiling myself in a prefix. I already do this for some packages because of the issue with Gentoo removing things they consider stale which is the problem.
I don't need USE flags all the time or compiling everything with -O3 -march or whatever, for most things it's just a plus that it might be faster. I think the one thing that might actually matter for me is in Gentoo fixing broken things is more direct, just compile, while I've had issues that persist on ubuntu even after reinstalling something. It just felt like there was somehow "stale state" in my OS which even sounds ridiculous saying. But, at this point, I can't handle breaks in portage because while you can fix things, it requires mental effort on my part and I'm tired of it.
EDIT: reading your comment, if you're asking for my opinion I mean look at this in particular:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/420783
ioquake3 was literally removed from portage for this "bug" which even if you accept that it's a hypothetical issue has easy patches that were never included, and it was removed, essentially removing hosts of open source fpses from portage! I even read a forum post talking about "upstream" not caring...upstream? ioquake3's release was charity, it's not like an active project.
This has been happening for a while. I've been here since 2008 or so and the instability and removal of slots within months has gotten out of hand. Again, the tooling is great, emerge, eix, the whole system of configuration files is awesome and I'm just used to openrc. I wish I could keep them but the slot removals in portage has just become such a chore to deal with.
Re: Debian Packages That Need Lovin'
#84As someone who's thinking about moving to Linux and has made many non-trivial contributions to Homebrew, the contribution process for Debian packages scares me. The official documentation seems to be more of a reference guide than a tutorial, and community blog posts always seem to start with "That other tool is outdated; here's the new way to do it," making it impossible to know which method is the right one. IMO, w…
Here's something to keep in mind that isn't super clear to newcomers, Linux != Debian. Linus Torvalds doesn't use Debian and nothing Debian does really impacts him or the core of Linux. Debian is just a highly opinionated take on Linux. You can totally dive in and be super productive with Linux without ever having to know about, use or, or care that Debian exists. (oh and Homebrew works great on Linux, give it a shot…
Debian is one of the distros that really takes package security seriously, which is a big plus for me.
> It comes from an even older gatekeeping around "the Unix way".
That's not gatekeeping, that's a very specifically-defined approach to operating systems.
Re: Debian Packages That Need Lovin'
#85I have been using Debian on and off since the late 90s, including some time creating packages. It was wonderful to be able to install a recent, working version of pretty much anything you wanted for the vast majority of that time. More recently, so many things I want to use are not available as a reasonably up-to-date package. Some examples are hugo and eclipse, where the versions provided are unusably ancient. https…
> More recently, so many things I want to use are not available as a reasonably up-to-date package. Some examples are hugo and eclipse, where the versions provided are unusably ancient.
I understand your comment but Hugo is the wrong example, this package is actively maintained and is up to date in Debian unstable.
Re: Debian Packages That Need Lovin'
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Upgrading Arch Linux can be a mess... But Ubuntu is no picnic, either. I've seen plenty of glitches during Ubuntu 20.04 "LTS" upgrades. The most recent is it dropping the network in the middle of the 20.04.2 upgrade. Before that, it lost the default route (there was a bug with multiple interfaces.) There have been others.
If we're going anecdotal, Ubuntu has been nothing but great for me. I have left laptops off for months and then turned them on and update/upgrade them no problem, as well as computers that I use daily. I think the crux of the update issue is really how well package managers handle interdependencies between packages vs how many/what packages you have on your system.
These are servers with multiple Ethernet and bridge interfaces, primarily used for VM hosting. This requires no third party packages and is not anything non-standard or terribly exotic. I often wonder if Ubuntu tests configurations with anything beyond a single NIC.
Re: Debian Packages That Need Lovin'
#87why is eclipse so many version behind the current version? I do not think it would hurt to update a little faster.
Why would you need a package for Eclipse. Download it is a ZIP, extract it in the location of your choice and run it from there. (Portable app) I have been using it like that almost every day for 15 years now.
Eclipse isn't portable, somebody has to compile it for Linux, it just comes down to whether you want that done by the Eclipse Foundation or Debian people.
Re: Debian Packages That Need Lovin'
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
It sounds like the focus on "the Debian way" is the cause for the symptom cataloged by the original article. The Homebrew maintainers are also notoriously picky (and for good reason), but I think it's the open nature of GitHub that has helped it grow so well. I wonder if opening the Debian gates a bit (at least superficially) would help encourage a healthier package ecosystem.
Like most things in software, it's ultimately just people and collaboration problems. I should be careful not to paint Debian in too bad of a light because ultimately it's what the people involved make it--good or bad. It's just that historically Debian enthusiasts have gravitated towards a lot of bad, old gatekeeping mindsets that have really made it difficult for the broader Linux community to grow. For example I t…
> For example I think back to all the drama with the early days of Ubuntu and how many in the Debian community were vehemently against the idea that someone make a distro that's easier for people to use.
That is disingenuous.
As much as I am annoyed by Debian gatekeeping, I am also gratefull that there still exist one Linux distribution that's serious about their users rights, aka software freedom, and that is able to properly discern, for instance, that Ubuntu was not going to be easier for newbies to install on their computers than it was going to be easier for Ubuntu to force, say, amazon crapware on newbies computers.
I hate Debian gatekeeping yet one have to admit that's the last line of defense against appstores everywhere and the last living example of what user empowerment can be.
Re: Debian Packages That Need Lovin'
#89If I want to help, what should I do?
Well, you need to get competent enough before you take on a role as package maintainer. For start, imagine that you are one. First, choose a package that really matters to you. On a daily basis. A package that you yourself would NEED to have it up2date the next day a new version is out. Get the source deb and try to build it. Usually it's not very hard. Then, try to do the same on all the debian variants (unstable, s…
That does seem like it would be a sensible way of going about things if I could manage to find a package of modest complexity that is important to me, but under-maintained.
Re: Debian Packages That Need Lovin'
#90At page 3 there is apache2 with more than 300k installs. The maintainer stated no more interest[1]. This seems like low hanging fruit for a massive supply chain attack. [1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=910917
That discussion is probably no longer relevant, because you can see on Salsa that people are pushing patches to the packaging: https://salsa.debian.org/apache-team/apache2