New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency • Hacker News Board

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#71

Post by rmason » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 10:43 PM UTC

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #7

Plastic recycling seems heavily motivated by emotion and virtue signaling. In reality, only about 5% of our crude oil use goes towards plastic. If we rolled out EVs, and then just burned all the plastic trash (using waste-to-energy plants), we would still be far ahead. The biggest challenges with plastics are hormone disruption, and microplastics (particularly in the 3rd world without sufficient landfill or W2E infra…

I remember a time when everything was paper bags. Groceries and retailers went with plastic because it was cheaper. But with plastic there was a hidden cost.

Now we're told we must pay a premium for recyclable plastic. Personally I'd rather pay a premium for paper because it's made from a renewable resource. Plus paper will decompose within two months in nature.

The only drawback I can find is that paper bags take more water to produce than plastic. Sitting in a Great Lakes state that problem doesn't bother me.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#72

Post by JulianMorrison » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 10:48 PM UTC

rmason wrote: post #71

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #7

Plastic recycling seems heavily motivated by emotion and virtue signaling. In reality, only about 5% of our crude oil use goes towards plastic. If we rolled out EVs, and then just burned all the plastic trash (using waste-to-energy plants), we would still be far ahead. The biggest challenges with plastics are hormone disruption, and microplastics (particularly in the 3rd world without sufficient landfill or W2E infra…

I remember a time when everything was paper bags. Groceries and retailers went with plastic because it was cheaper. But with plastic there was a hidden cost. Now we're told we must pay a premium for recyclable plastic. Personally I'd rather pay a premium for paper because it's made from a renewable resource. Plus paper will decompose within two months in nature. The only drawback I can find is that paper bags take mo…

Paper bags also turn to mush and spill your groceries when wet.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#73

Post by Dma54rhs » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 10:49 PM UTC

alpaca128 wrote: post #23

swiley wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PLA can be recycled with near perfect efficiency and is available today. Also it's extremely biodegradable so throwing it out isn't the end of the world.

No, it's not. Despite what store pages love to tell you at every corner, PLA does not degrade by itself. It requires exposure to 60+ degrees Celsius for at least 6 months. Good luck building recycling plants handling this in an environmentally-friendly and economical way. Don't throw out PLA, it's barely less problematic than other materials.

Temperature at land fills get rather high. Not sure about 6 months, it depends where.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#74

Post by JulianMorrison » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 10:51 PM UTC

joshspankit wrote: post #32

jvanderbot wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe plastic recycling is not motivated by oil use primarily. I believe it is motivated by trash accumulation in oceans and the food chain (microplastics). There are a ton of areas of the world where plastic just piles up.

Off-topic, but sometimes I feel like we could harvest the plastic from the ocean, make plastic bricks, and build millions of houses. Edit: Just to be clear, I’m not trying to say that this is a viable solution to anything, or that it’s a good use of resources based on our current methodologies. I’m more just trying to say that there’s so much raw material out there and that it’s better if it comes out of the ocean. L…

Bricks made of plastic weather into dust made of microplastic.

If microplastic turns out to be as serious a problem as has been suggested, with bioaccumulation and various sorts of damage, then the only solution is that all plastic without exception has to be thoroughly destroyed chemically or by burning as soon as it it isn't in use. And not put into use in ways that emit microplastic (as fibers, dust, or otherwise).

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#75

Post by ramraj07 » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 10:52 PM UTC

rmason wrote: post #71

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #7

Plastic recycling seems heavily motivated by emotion and virtue signaling. In reality, only about 5% of our crude oil use goes towards plastic. If we rolled out EVs, and then just burned all the plastic trash (using waste-to-energy plants), we would still be far ahead. The biggest challenges with plastics are hormone disruption, and microplastics (particularly in the 3rd world without sufficient landfill or W2E infra…

I remember a time when everything was paper bags. Groceries and retailers went with plastic because it was cheaper. But with plastic there was a hidden cost. Now we're told we must pay a premium for recyclable plastic. Personally I'd rather pay a premium for paper because it's made from a renewable resource. Plus paper will decompose within two months in nature. The only drawback I can find is that paper bags take mo…

Also not everything can be paper. A coffee cup can never be fully paper, it needs a plastic lining and can thus never be recyclable. Not without it being extremely crappy. No food item can be enclosed in a fully paper enclosure and expected to have a shelf life.

And for all the Portlanders saving a plastic bag there's a Texan buying all their drinking water as pallets of disposable single use plastic bottles.

I think we should just take the japan route - use plastic, try your best to be judicious and then just incinerate it.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#76

Post by JulianMorrison » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 10:52 PM UTC

da_big_ghey wrote: post #57

mnouquet wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [...] build millions of houses ... slowly leaching endocrine disruptors in the environment for generations to come.

This would also cut reproduction rates, which is not pleasant but is necessary to stop climate change.

There are more species than humans who need to reproduce.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#77

Post by cortesoft » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 10:53 PM UTC

jvanderbot wrote: post #26

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #7

Plastic recycling seems heavily motivated by emotion and virtue signaling. In reality, only about 5% of our crude oil use goes towards plastic. If we rolled out EVs, and then just burned all the plastic trash (using waste-to-energy plants), we would still be far ahead. The biggest challenges with plastics are hormone disruption, and microplastics (particularly in the 3rd world without sufficient landfill or W2E infra…

I believe plastic recycling is not motivated by oil use primarily. I believe it is motivated by trash accumulation in oceans and the food chain (microplastics). There are a ton of areas of the world where plastic just piles up.

How would recycling help that? Throwing your trash in a trash can and taking it to a landfill would protect the ocean and food chain just as much as recycling it would.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#78

Post by rmason » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 10:53 PM UTC

JulianMorrison wrote: post #72

rmason wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember a time when everything was paper bags. Groceries and retailers went with plastic because it was cheaper. But with plastic there was a hidden cost. Now we're told we must pay a premium for recyclable plastic. Personally I'd rather pay a premium for paper because it's made from a renewable resource. Plus paper will decompose within two months in nature. The only drawback I can find is that paper bags take mo…

Paper bags also turn to mush and spill your groceries when wet.

Apparently you've never had a plastic bag break dumping your groceries on the ground. Try chasing rolling bottles of pop going under cars when it's below zero out. Never had that happen with a paper bag.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#79

Post by ramraj07 » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 10:54 PM UTC

rahimiali wrote: post #60

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #7

Plastic recycling seems heavily motivated by emotion and virtue signaling. In reality, only about 5% of our crude oil use goes towards plastic. If we rolled out EVs, and then just burned all the plastic trash (using waste-to-energy plants), we would still be far ahead. The biggest challenges with plastics are hormone disruption, and microplastics (particularly in the 3rd world without sufficient landfill or W2E infra…

disposing of plastics isn't so simple. burning plastic for energy is ok for some plastics, but plastics that contain chlorides produce dangerous gases. we don't have cost effective ways to capture those gases. even if we addressed that issue, the economics of w2e are poorer than those of landfills.

Citation? I was told proper incineration can take care of that l.

Re: New plant-based plastics can be chemically recycled with near-perfect efficiency

#80

Post by JulianMorrison » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 10:57 PM UTC

rmason wrote: post #78

JulianMorrison wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paper bags also turn to mush and spill your groceries when wet.

Apparently you've never had a plastic bag break dumping your groceries on the ground. Try chasing rolling bottles of pop going under cars when it's below zero out. Never had that happen with a paper bag.

I've had both break. Plastic bags tear when overloaded or structurally unsound. Previously sound paper bags become structurally unsound when soaked, and it doesn't take much wet to soak them. (And unhelpfully, the things that could make a paper bag waterproof also make it non biodegradable).