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U.S. Airports No Longer Have to Build Their Own Terrible Trains

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Re: U.S. Airports No Longer Have to Build Their Own Terrible Trains

#11
> This unique type of U.S. transportation has no commonly-recognized name, and I will soon arbitrarily assign a term for them just to make everything easier.

They're a kind of tram. I suspect the author is from New York, because the train-to-the-train of which he speaks largely doesn't exist in any other city in the US, and the concept of a two-car light rail-esque system seems astonishingly foreign to him. Especially because the tram style of light rail is quite rare in the US but rather more common in Europe.

> The train itself should just go to the airport, like they do in virtually every other airport with a mass transit connection in the world.

Let's look at cities in the US that have a large airport and a metrorail mass transit system:

* NYC, LaGuardia: accessible only by bus

* NYC, JFK: Tram system (electrified 3rd rail) that connects to two subway lines.

* NYC, Newark: Monorail that connects to commuter rail station

* DC, DCA: Metro stops literally between the parking garage and the airport terminals.

* DC, Dulles: Metro stops literally between the parking garage and the main airport terminal (although there is a very large surface lot between the two).

* Chicago, Midway: L stops literally at the terminal.

* Chicago, O'Hare: L stops in the middle of the three main terminals.

* Boston: T stop is roughly as far away as economy parking. No internal circulation over than buses.

* San Francisco, SFO: BART stops at the airport terminals (although it does a funny Y setup to get in there).

* San Francisco, Oakland: BART station is some distance from the Oakland airport. The tramline connecting them is a rubber-tired tram owned and operated by BART.

* Philadelphia: SEPTA has a connection to the airport that is a commuter rail connection, with stations at several terminals.

* Atlanta: MARTA stops literally at the airport terminal, in fact closer than the tram line stop to the rental car facility.

* LA: Metro does not have a particularly close stop to LAX. No tram-like system at LAX.

* Miami: Metro stop is at the rental car facility, terminal itself accessed via tram-like system.

* Baltimore: Light rail stop at the terminal itself. (No connection between the heavy rail at Baltimore and the airport).

* Cleveland: Metro stop at the airport terminal itself.

In summary, of 16 airports considered here, 4 have the pattern the author decries, 9 have rail transit stops directly baked into the terminal entries, and 3 do not have either pattern. Functionally speaking, the Oakland and JFK systems are effectively mass transit spurs not built to the same technology as the main mass transit system and having little other destination than the airport, neither of which it turns out are particularly uncommon (since airports tend to be massive tracts of land far removed from anything else, it's often uneconomical to extend regular mass transit all the way to the airport).

(There are basically two competing proposals to bring transit to LaGuardia. One would extend the N/W from Ditmars to the airport, the other would be an AirTrain-like system that extends to the 7/LIRR at Mets/Willet Point and is sometimes suggested to connect all the way to the existing AirTrain at Jamaica. Guess which one is moving forward.)

Re: U.S. Airports No Longer Have to Build Their Own Terrible Trains

#12
post #7

This article mentions Dulles Airport's "mobile lounges", but doesn't explain their extraordinary history, which has absolutely nothing to do with the issues discussed in the article itself. [Dulles has no train connection yet]. If you've gone through DC's Dulles Airport, especially its international terminal, you may have experienced traveling in what must be described as a moving room, a kind of huge, wide bus. Long…

> a single-point bottleneck security line (sadly) required at modern airports.

Why could you not replicate the security procedure across all lobbies?

Re: U.S. Airports No Longer Have to Build Their Own Terrible Trains

#13
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Large airports outside the US often do have one station per terminal, or a station conveniently between two terminals. See eg London Heathrow, Tokyo Haneda, Tokyo Narita, Kuala Lumpur, Delhi and many more.

Some do. Mostly when they're at the end of the line because you're mostly not going to make a bunch of airport stops in the middle of a public transportation route such as in the case of San Francisco, say. Which didn't originally have a BART connection at all. (And Heathrow as I recall still needs a bus for Terminal 4.)

> (And Heathrow as I recall still needs a bus for Terminal 4.)

Terminal 4 at Heathrow is a different "route", in that trains go to Terminal 2/3, then 5 or 4 IIRC (and you have to switch if you get on the wrong one), but they go there.

> not going to make a bunch of airport stops in the middle of a public transportation route

Generally, but see Sydney Airport here, where the Domestic and International terminals are very close to the Central station, which is in turn almost the start of the T8 line. I'm sure there are others as well.

Re: U.S. Airports No Longer Have to Build Their Own Terrible Trains

#15
post #7

This article mentions Dulles Airport's "mobile lounges", but doesn't explain their extraordinary history, which has absolutely nothing to do with the issues discussed in the article itself. [Dulles has no train connection yet]. If you've gone through DC's Dulles Airport, especially its international terminal, you may have experienced traveling in what must be described as a moving room, a kind of huge, wide bus. Long…

I have twice been in a situation where I had to deplane by mobile lounge at Dulles. For your standard modern medium-haul airplane, it takes at least two mobile lounges to fully support the passenger load, and it's a decently crowded standing-room-only affair.

Continuing the original vision, it's clear that passenger counts are absolutely incapable of supporting the "lounge" aspect of the mobile lounge design. You don't want to be on those things longer than you have to. It's still more comfortable than a trek on the tarmac, but it's definitely not superior to the modern gate system.

Re: U.S. Airports No Longer Have to Build Their Own Terrible Trains

#16

Wish airport charts a fee to use thier train? The article mentions several times about a second fare, but I don't know if any airport that actually has a fare for their "skytrain"

JFK is one example, when you’re transferring to/from the subway/LIRR to the AirTrain, costs $7.75

Re: U.S. Airports No Longer Have to Build Their Own Terrible Trains

#17

Wish airport charts a fee to use thier train? The article mentions several times about a second fare, but I don't know if any airport that actually has a fare for their "skytrain"

JFK, Newark, Oakland. Two of those three airports are NYC airports, and I strongly suspect (especially from the train-to-the-train phrasing) that the author is mostly complaining about JFK's setup, which is an unusual setup for airports.

Re: U.S. Airports No Longer Have to Build Their Own Terrible Trains

#18
There was an interesting issue with a rail connection on the Narita International Airport serving Tokyo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narita_International_Airport#C...

The airport was build in big style on the 60s on farmland forcefully bought from local farmers and should have been served by a Shinkansen high speed line directly from Tokyo station, making it's 50+ km distance from the city center an non-issue!

Lets say this did not go well with the farmers, who felt their rightful possession was forcefully taken and started what was effectively a major guerilla warfare campaign against the airport. There was a lot of sabotage, arson, general attacks and even high towers built near the Airport edge on still private land.

Over the years the airport project managed to prevail and the situation mostly quieted down (there is actually still one farmer quietly farmer who never sold tending his farm in the middle of the airport grounds, complete with a route access tunnel!).

Still, there was the problem of actually getting to the airport from Tokyo - no one wanted to risk another war with farmers for the land needed to build the Shinkansen line to the airport, so it ended up with a fully built Shinkansen station under the airport but no rail actually connecting to it. This got even more bizzare over the years as private railway companies creeped with their conventional lines ever closer to the airport yet the airport staunchly prevented anyone from using their shiny useless station with unworthy non-shinkansen trains.

The situation was untenable long term, with travelers having to travel to a nearby train station and then take a bus to the airport, causing delays. So finally in 1991 after immense political pressure the first rail connection to the airport opened and these days 3 different rail lines serve the airport, including a non-shinkanse high speed train that takes you to the center of Tokyo in 45 minutes with 160 km top speed (~ 1/2 of what modern shinkansen can do).

Re: U.S. Airports No Longer Have to Build Their Own Terrible Trains

#19
post #18

There was an interesting issue with a rail connection on the Narita International Airport serving Tokyo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narita_International_Airport#C... The airport was build in big style on the 60s on farmland forcefully bought from local farmers and should have been served by a Shinkansen high speed line directly from Tokyo station, making it's 50+ km distance from the city center an non-issue! Lets…

Wow, thanks for the background on this. I lived in Japan previously and I had always assumed that there was no Shinkansen to Narita due to airline lobbying. Most international flights go through Tokyo. If you live in Nagoya or Osaka and a direct Shinkansen connection was available to Narita for your international flight, I think a lot of people would choose to take the Shinkansen to/from the airport rather than the domestic flight.

Re: U.S. Airports No Longer Have to Build Their Own Terrible Trains

#20
post #7

This article mentions Dulles Airport's "mobile lounges", but doesn't explain their extraordinary history, which has absolutely nothing to do with the issues discussed in the article itself. [Dulles has no train connection yet]. If you've gone through DC's Dulles Airport, especially its international terminal, you may have experienced traveling in what must be described as a moving room, a kind of huge, wide bus. Long…

> a single-point bottleneck security line (sadly) required at modern airports. Why could you not replicate the security procedure across all lobbies?

Money?
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