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Ask HN: Can I trust brokers with my stocks?

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Re: Ask HN: Can I trust brokers with my stocks?

#11
post #3

Avanza supports loaning out stocks depending on the account type, it is only available on Kapitalförsäkring because otherwise the stock is in your name (on Depå / ISK). Also you get paid a premium if they loan your stocks. It is described on https://www.avanza.se/konton-lan-prislista/konton/kapitalfor... and includes a section about the risk.

Awesome answer and good to know they are so transparent about this. Wish their customer service had given me the same answer.

Re: Ask HN: Can I trust brokers with my stocks?

#12
Seems like Avanza competitor Nordnet is fairly transparent about loaning out your stocks. On by default for some account types (when the stocks are not in your name, e.g. KF account type). They will give you a cut of the gains. You can chose to opt out.

https://www.nordnet.se/se/marknad/aktier/aktielaneprogrammet

Re: Ask HN: Can I trust brokers with my stocks?

#13

Stick to large, well known firms. In the US, that's Fidelity, Vanguard, Schwab, eTrade, ... There are few 'fintech' players that have the weighty balance sheet you'd want when major market events occur. Trades are pretty cheap, even $0 for most standard trades on Schwab[0]. [0] https://www.schwab.com/pricing

I think almost every platform made trades free in December 2019. In any case Bank of America/Merrill Edge also has free trades.

Re: Ask HN: Can I trust brokers with my stocks?

#14
post #9
post #3

Avanza supports loaning out stocks depending on the account type, it is only available on Kapitalförsäkring because otherwise the stock is in your name (on Depå / ISK). Also you get paid a premium if they loan your stocks. It is described on https://www.avanza.se/konton-lan-prislista/konton/kapitalfor... and includes a section about the risk.

Can you use ISK when living outside of Sweden, and still enjoy the low tax and no capital gains tax?

This depends on your country's tax code, but assume by default not. For example, in France, interest on savings (Livret A) is tax exempt, whereas in Sweden it's not. When living in Sweden, I had to pay taxes on French interest.

Re: Ask HN: Can I trust brokers with my stocks?

#15

If you are worried about that wait until you learn about Cede & Co. On US listed stocks there is a very good chance you don’t own them at all. You just have certain contractual rights to them. (Note: I believe the counter party risk with lending for shorts or Cede & Co custody is extremely far down the list when talking about risks in the equities market)

You can order physical delivery of certificates from them if you want, but absolutely nobody actually wants this, not least because you'll have to pay for all the silly labour involved, and pay for it all over again if you ever intend to sell what you own. It's exactly like worrying about Visa/Mastercard trying to fuck you when paying for gas in a foreign currency, while ignoring the massive convenience and cost efficiencies you receive in return. Failure of the depository system is no more likely than failure of the bond market -- and even if it did fail, the paper trail means you'd have extremely strong and obvious claims to whatever it is you happen to own. If you're worried about such critical infrastructure failing, just go live in a cave or renovated nuclear bunker, because that means cash is dead to you too.

Cede & Co conspiracy theories are a non-issue, and absolutely nobody wants the alternative, which involved fleets of bicycle couriers carrying actual physical certificates between brokers, and caused so much overhead that the US market system reached the point of total collapse prior to introduction of the depository, resulting at one point in the stock exchanges closing for one business day per week simply to allow brokers time catch up on all the paper mess.

Re: Ask HN: Can I trust brokers with my stocks?

#16
I’m not a lawyer but own a number of shares in a number of companies through IG in the UK.

Since you don’t really own the shares, the broker (in my case IG) hold them on my behalf in a ledger that simply allocates the shares to me then I imagine they can do what they like with the shares. So long as the money is there when you want to liquidate it then it’s irrelevant to some degree.

In the UK the value of the shares I believe is fenced off in a separate entity so that should the broker go bankrupt the money is still there for shareholders (ie shares bought in the platform, not shareholders in the brokerage) and inaccessible to creditors, this was tested in the high court in the UK recently when the administrators tried to use this ring fenced money to pay their fees as the broker couldn’t pay it themselves and the ring fence was upheld by the court.

Not sure if any of this helps but it’s good to remember you don’t actually own the shares, they are held by someone else and they can probably do what they like with it.

Re: Ask HN: Can I trust brokers with my stocks?

#17

Disclaimer: IANAL or a financial expert. This information is relevant in the US, but Swedish brokerages may do something similar. In the US, brokers cannot lend out your shares without your knowledge. Brokerage customers can opt into a program called Fully Paid [Securities] Lending, in which the broker pays you a monthly fee to lend your shares out to short sellers. The fee you're paid is higher for securities that a…

My understanding is that this ability to lend out shares is broadly the default option for services like Robin Hood and TD Ameritrade.

Re: Ask HN: Can I trust brokers with my stocks?

#18

I’m not a lawyer but own a number of shares in a number of companies through IG in the UK. Since you don’t really own the shares, the broker (in my case IG) hold them on my behalf in a ledger that simply allocates the shares to me then I imagine they can do what they like with the shares. So long as the money is there when you want to liquidate it then it’s irrelevant to some degree. In the UK the value of the shares…

I have evidence that in Sweden you actually own the shares. I actually got a personal letter (read "paper delivered to my mailbox") from the CEO of SAS AB (the Scandinavian airlines).

Re: Ask HN: Can I trust brokers with my stocks?

#19
If you really care about this you must also pay attention to funds you hold, as (AFAIK) the vast majority of providers earn extra yield by lending out their holdings

https://www.investopedia.com/investing/role-securities-lendi...

> BlackRock, Inc. (BLK) managing director for securities lending Jason Strofs indicates that this is a significant business: "about $3 trillion of our assets we consider lendable, which consists of iShares ETFs, mutual funds, collective trusts, and separate accounts," he says. "Across that $3 trillion, roughly 9% of those securities are out on loan on any given day."

SLB is a double-edged sword, for example since it increases float it may also work to reduce spread, reducing transaction costs for everyone

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