Margaret Mitchell fired from Google • Hacker News Board

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#661

Post by _y5hn » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 11:34 AM UTC

ergocoder wrote: post #559

contemporary343 wrote: post #111

They also seem to have sidelined Samy Bengio (Yoshua's brother) who was the skip-level manager of the team and, as far as I can tell, backed both of them and continued to: https://twitter.com/L_badikho/status/1362892301979312128 As can be seen above, current team members state that Google is running a smear campaign against both of them. We should emphatically not take Google's words at face value here either. All of…

Timnit and her supporters are toxic. Can you imagine calling out your manager of manager on Twitter like this? https://twitter.com/timnitGebru/status/1278569638532530177 Like wtf. This happened 6 months before Timnit was fired. I would absolutely not work with this person if they behaved like Timnit. She and her supporters are absolutely fired for being toxic. They are playing martyr.

This tweet, what's wrong about it?

Timnit Gebru Jul 2, 2020 Yep generally you did, thanks. But not about me, Deb and others being attacked by White supremacists, anonymous accounts etc. Clear support means taking a clear stand. And this doesn’t seem to be ending.

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#662

Post by valdiorn » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 11:36 AM UTC

madamelic wrote: post #39

ggm wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think society at large really benefits from employers doing things this way? If you were in the ethics department of a company, unpacked deep seated entrenched breach of social norms and were blocked from talking about it but still believed in ethics, what would you do? I am unsure I would be prepared to do what she and Timbru did but that's a long way from the implied cynicism and also frankly abject legalist…

If you fire your "Ethical AI" team lead for disagreeing with you... maybe you are only interested in the appearance of being ethical. Just a thought.

Only if the disagreeing was in relation to ethical AI.

As far as I know, she's made this about perceived sexism, racism, and personally attacking hermanagers for failing to step up regarding various topics NOT related to AI ethics. There hasn't been much discussion about actual AI ethics, at least not on her behalf.

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#663

Post by knorker » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 11:37 AM UTC

tantalor wrote: post #325

dragonwriter wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if she thought that she was untouchable, She was complaining about her peer and co-lead being fired by top management, going around their shared immediate management, dishonestly and in retaliation for internally highlighting problems. I think the one thing you can be absolutely sure of is that she didn't see herself as invulnerable. > so easily getting caught red-handed “so easily caught red-handed”? It took 5…

> she didn't see herself as invulnerable Yet: Dr. Gebru and I had just been promoted to “Staff” Research Scientist, which is meaningful in the world of STEM, with the sort of honor associated with becoming tenured. We had thought it meant a certain amount of job security.

Ha!

I have never ever heard anyone compare L6 (staff) to tenure. That's absurd!

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#664

Post by newsbinator » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 11:40 AM UTC

asimovfan wrote: post #621

5600k wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would anyone suspect that an AI set her up? One could be fully capable of that. This whole thing may be ironic- in more than one sense. I’m kidding of course... or am I?

It is disappointing that this message is being downvoted.

If an AI set her up, why would it let us discuss it here?

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#665

Post by knorker » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 11:40 AM UTC

gassius wrote: post #616

bradlys wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money isn’t usually enough. I walked away from a job paying more than $1m/yr (to be clear - I am not rich or financially independent, the stock is still illiquid atm and I live in a 400sqft in-law unit). You need satisfaction overall with your environment. I kept asking myself how much a year of my life was worth and it turns out - unless it’s fucking insane money ($10mil+ liquid) then I can’t suffer through somethin…

Unless we are talking about a job with inherently long term health risk and/or ilegal activity with prosecution risk I would be willing to put up a year or two in order to secure a life long financial independence. 2M USD is enough to confortable spend the rest of your life doing what you really want to do. But hey, maybe is me

Staff won't give you anywhere near a million per year in total comp. Not even before tax or living expenses.

You'll be able to put away 100-200k a year on that at best, is my estimate.

(This includes bonus and stock)

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#666

Post by _y5hn » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 11:42 AM UTC

vkou wrote: post #652

cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google, by virtue of its sheer influence in the industry, is primarily responsible for the activist-driven grief that has shat itself all over the tech industry in recent years. So fuck them. Watching the toxic crops they've planted and tended to go for their own creator's throats is nothing short of delightful.

You make it sound like politics was invented at Google... As opposed to being something that people have engaged in, since before recorded history[1], during times of upheaval of social and cultural norms. [1] Certainly, since before 1998. The recent past was not some apolitical paradise.

They all do however, succeed in diverting attention thoroughly away from both AI, and ethics..

ML and AI are just calculations, always will be. You need sound, rational arguments and evidences, to get the breakthroughs.

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#667

Post by Dma54rhs » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 11:47 AM UTC

true_religion wrote: post #256

2-tpg wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The political activist collective is slowly falling apart. If you get blamed for racism when firing an employee for telling colleagues not to pursue KPIs, there is not much you can do to continue placating these professional victims. They are now resorting to calling Google gaslighting for replacing Gebru with a Black person. It is low-brow ugly neo-racism, but then again, I don't really want Google AI in charge of A…

Who was Gebru replaced with? I couldn't find anything when I looked it up (ironically on Google).

Doubt she was needed there first place, just good PR to hire someone related with ethics who is also POC and woman.

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#668

Post by Dma54rhs » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 11:50 AM UTC

angrais wrote: post #631

baryphonic wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree Google & "Big Tech" enables them. How does Big Tech create them, though? Universities seem to be filling that role.

Could you expand on how and why you think universities are creating such individuals?

Because it all comes out of American universities? I wouldn't mind if they didn't try to spread and infect the rest of the world into it either.

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#669

Post by pydry » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 11:53 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #636

ajb wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So,if you are being abused by your boss via email, you can't give the evidence to a lawyer, but first have to apply for a court order without showing any evidence in order to get the evidence? I think this is unlikely to be the law, and if it is, it shouldn't be.

IANAL, but that's what "discovery" is for.

I've never heard of discovery being applied to ones own communication.

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#670

Post by mst » Sat, Feb 20, 2021, 11:53 AM UTC

ALittleLight wrote: post #424

aerosmile wrote: post #261

You will learn a lot about Margaret Mitchell's firing by simply reading this piece she shared publicly on Twitter: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ERi2crDToYhYjEjxRoOzO-uO... A few punchlines: "Every moment where Jeff Dean and Megan Kacholia do not take responsibility for their actions is another moment where the company as a whole stands by silently as if to intentionally send the horrifying message that Dr. Geb…

Is she really calling Dr. Gebru one of the world's leading scientists or am I misreading something?

There seem to be quite a few people that consider Dr. Gebru to be one of the leading scientists within that specific (sub)field.

I don't know the field well enough to have an opinion on the merits but it seems like a view one might disagree with but would not be surprised to find somebody to hold.