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Cockpit – Integrated, glanceable, web-based interface for servers

cockpit-project.org

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Re: Cockpit – Integrated, glanceable, web-based interface for servers

#81

Post by alanfranz »

nuker wrote: post #51

I'm searching for remote server file manager right now. I want to copy (and compare) large directories on same Linux server from my Macbook. Cannot find one so far. Cockpit: "here is no graphical file manager, and we don't plan to add one." https://github.com/cockpit-project/cockpit/issues/11011 CuberDuck: "FTP and SFTP do not support a copy operation." Is there a way with GUI?

Not sure about your CyberDuck problem, though. You should check your ssh server settings. I always use CyberDuck over ssh/sftp with my linux server.

Re: Cockpit – Integrated, glanceable, web-based interface for servers

#82

Post by Risord »

kbenson wrote: post #42
luplex wrote: post #35

Is there a reason why successfully running software on a server is so much harder than running software on your phone? I don't think it needs to be this way. Someone needs to figure out server software for consumers. Just like PCs became more accessible, so should servers! Edit: Brainstorming here: specifically, I'd like a more accessible UI, automatic updates, sensible defaults on all apps, an easier way to get star…

Because managing the correct way to handle downtime and how to respond to problems is vastly different when serving one person that will generally be actively using the device less than half the time of the day or far less, and serving thousands or millions of people using it such that at any one moment multiple people might be actively using it. > Edit: Brainstorming here: specifically, I'd like a more accessible UI…

I claim that it's possible to design cargo ships and planes to be driven by anyone with short training compareable to driving license.

It all comes down how much you want to invest for being as safe as possible from accidents. Cost of cargo ship or plane accident is very high and there is no valuable reasons(?) why everyone should be able to drive those vehicles. Therefore it makes sense that those vehicles are driven by professionals and are designed for professionals.

If your server has millions of users and it provide such value that down time is not an options, maintaining such server should be done by professionals and maintenance tools should be designed for professionals.

However thats not case for every server and cost of failing "empty" server is basicly zero (unlike empty cargo plane).

I think it would be interesting to see software designed around not centralized servers, not PCs, but PSs = Personal Servers where user data lives on their own servers and services only link and communicate between them.

Re: Cockpit – Integrated, glanceable, web-based interface for servers

#83

Post by luplex »

kbenson wrote: post #42
luplex wrote: post #35

Is there a reason why successfully running software on a server is so much harder than running software on your phone? I don't think it needs to be this way. Someone needs to figure out server software for consumers. Just like PCs became more accessible, so should servers! Edit: Brainstorming here: specifically, I'd like a more accessible UI, automatic updates, sensible defaults on all apps, an easier way to get star…

Because managing the correct way to handle downtime and how to respond to problems is vastly different when serving one person that will generally be actively using the device less than half the time of the day or far less, and serving thousands or millions of people using it such that at any one moment multiple people might be actively using it. > Edit: Brainstorming here: specifically, I'd like a more accessible UI…

I think of it more like a pickup truck: It's easy to drive and gives consumers all the cargo space they would ever need. Not everyone needs to run Netflix's backend. But for things like a blog, an email server, a matrix server, controls for your smart home, and so on, it would be preferable to have users control them.

Re: Cockpit – Integrated, glanceable, web-based interface for servers

#84

Post by luplex »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #63
luplex wrote: post #35

Is there a reason why successfully running software on a server is so much harder than running software on your phone? I don't think it needs to be this way. Someone needs to figure out server software for consumers. Just like PCs became more accessible, so should servers! Edit: Brainstorming here: specifically, I'd like a more accessible UI, automatic updates, sensible defaults on all apps, an easier way to get star…

Cloudron.io and Sandstorm.io both do this well. (Cloudron is very actively maintained with a lot of package updates and a very wide package library and feature set, Sandstorm is open source and adds a layer of security in assuming apps are evil or compromised.) I do think there's probably a good market for a "just plug it into the back of your router" box that has one of these pre-installed and ready to go. Windows H…

Thanks, i did not know about both of these! They do seem like a step in the direction I have in mind!

Re: Cockpit – Integrated, glanceable, web-based interface for servers

#85

Post by rwmj »

spijdar wrote: post #31
cheph wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cockpit is not ever going to be as good as using the underlying tools it integrates with, but it is still pretty nice for what it is and I like having it.

I haven't really kept up with this, but last I heard virt-manager was deprecated (on RHEL at least) in favor of just Cockpit, hence the comparison. Cockpit is definitely nice, but it still feels pretty incomplete compared to virt-manager. virt-manager appears to still be developed, though, just without the same blessing/level of support from Red Hat.

Sadly true: deprecated in RHEL 8, removed in RHEL 9. Although we'll continue to develop and ship virt-manager in EPEL so the majority of people will still easily be able to install it.

Re: Cockpit – Integrated, glanceable, web-based interface for servers

#86

Post by hda111 »

luplex wrote: post #35

Is there a reason why successfully running software on a server is so much harder than running software on your phone? I don't think it needs to be this way. Someone needs to figure out server software for consumers. Just like PCs became more accessible, so should servers! Edit: Brainstorming here: specifically, I'd like a more accessible UI, automatic updates, sensible defaults on all apps, an easier way to get star…

This is what Canonical tried with snap packages. We need an open source variant of this system. I don’t think this exists.

Re: Cockpit – Integrated, glanceable, web-based interface for servers

#87

Post by monadic5 »

luplex wrote: post #35

Is there a reason why successfully running software on a server is so much harder than running software on your phone? I don't think it needs to be this way. Someone needs to figure out server software for consumers. Just like PCs became more accessible, so should servers! Edit: Brainstorming here: specifically, I'd like a more accessible UI, automatic updates, sensible defaults on all apps, an easier way to get star…

It seems like an order of magnitude harder to run something on a phone, personally! i've never had to beg a company to let me run software on a server, at least not yet! ...let alone process payments through the platform.

Re: Cockpit – Integrated, glanceable, web-based interface for servers

#88

Post by chousuke »

Has anyone tried to use this stuff at a scale of greater than a dozen servers? I briefly tried it in my homelab on CentOS 8, and immediately hit enough weirdness that I'm just back to SSH with Ansible now.

I suppose having a GUI can be nice for a health overview of your infrastructure, but in general I dislike GUIs for actual administrative work, since using them is a practice that steers you away from automation.

Most GUI tools don't provide you very good ways to make "atomic" changes, which is made very easy if you run your automation from a git repository, since the final review before hitting go is just "git diff".

Re: Cockpit – Integrated, glanceable, web-based interface for servers

#89

Post by tinco »

chousuke wrote: post #88

Has anyone tried to use this stuff at a scale of greater than a dozen servers? I briefly tried it in my homelab on CentOS 8, and immediately hit enough weirdness that I'm just back to SSH with Ansible now. I suppose having a GUI can be nice for a health overview of your infrastructure, but in general I dislike GUIs for actual administrative work, since using them is a practice that steers you away from automation. Mo…

Tried it on ubuntu, it also has weirdness there. The whole tool is definitely rough around the edges.

I would never use it to actually change machines though. Definitely Ansible over SSH is the way to go there.

I've mixed feelings about controlling the machines through cockpit. In theory there shouldn't be any difference between SSH and HTTPS on the security of the protocol side, but it definitely feels iffy to have a python (I think?) web app execute administration commands on a server.

I wonder what the security professionals think of it.

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