Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

axios.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 864 posts

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#181

Post by Booktrope »

leetcrew wrote: post #171
buildbot wrote: post #131

It’s a really common refrain here that if you are employee critical of your employer you should expect to get fired… Well perhaps, but you’d think that specifically someone in AI ethics needs to be empowered to speak up against both internal external issues. Or did google just want an research ethics hit team against other companies technologies? Makes me wonder if project zero is really trying as hard as possible wi…

why would a company pay someone to publicly criticize them? in the case of google, there's already plenty of people willing to do that for free.

Yeah, why wouldn't a company want a workforce full of yes-men and engineers who care about nothing but making shareholders money and making executives look good?

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#182

Post by da_big_ghey »

jancsika wrote: post #56
rsj_hn wrote: post #15

>Unfireable save for clear violations of policies such as sexual harassment I would take a look at (and consider donating to) FIRE to understand the current state of academic freedom in universities. https://www.thefire.org/news-and-media/ Just to give two examples: Bret Weinstein was fired from Evergreen for not participating in a no-white-people-on-campus day (and he was also subject to credible death threats, requ…

> Bret Weinstein was fired from Evergreen for not participating in a no-white-people-on-campus day Interpretation 1: There was a "no-white-people-on-campus day" at a university, a professor named Bret Weinstein-- a white person-- was on the campus that day (either in defiance or without foreknowledge of the event), and was consequently fired for being white while on campus. Interpretation 2: There was a "no-white-peo…

Interpretation 2 is closest to correct. There was a "day of absence", and in 2017, whites were "invited" to leave the campus for the day's activities. Weinstein protested this in a letter, which led to protests of a violent nature to the point that he had to hold classes off-campus. Weinstein sued over the fact that he had to hold the event off-campus rather than the University maintaining an academic setting in which he could teach. He also needed a police escort on campus. He contended that this represented a hostile work environment.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/opinion/when-the-left-tur...

http://www.cooperpointjournal.com/2017/04/10/day-of-absence-...

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#183

Post by deanCommie »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #94

It's pretty important to get this story straight: She moved files when she wasn't supposed to. This seems like a pretty standard firing. People are already claiming on twitter that Google is assaulting ethical AI, and I just don't see it. Google did not immediately comment on those claims. Its statement said of Mitchell: “We confirmed that there were multiple violations of our code of conduct, as well as of our secur…

An employer has a vested interest in letting you go can always find a reason that can be summarized as some violation of corporate policy.

Right now I'm writing this during the work day on my work computer.

I forwarded a work email to my own personal email once because my work email client wasn't syncing on my phone.

Could these be used against me if my employer cared enough? Undoubtedly.

OP is preemptively judging Mitchell 1 hour after she announced she was let go. We have no concept if there claims are legitimate and will not survive a wrongful dismissal lawsuit.

Google doesn't care. Paying Mitchell X Million dollars would be just a cost of doing business. In the meantime, an "uppity" provocateur is out of the building and not fighting for change.

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#184

Post by mc32 »

vorpalhex wrote: post #155
legostormtroopr wrote: post #110

Out of curiousity I checked out Dr. Mitchells Twitter feed. On her feed for the past several months, shes been posting and reposting articles that are heavily critical of her employer. Now there is a line between public and private space, but many people use Twitter as a professional network. And Dr. Mitchell includes her Google credentials in her bio. So given her substantial, critical, public views of her employer…

To quote many commenters when this has happened to people on the wrong side of the political divide: "Well, they're a private company and they can fire who they want to." Or if you prefer, "freedom of speech doesn't apply to companies". Personally, I think this weird mash-up of the personal and the private has landed us in a new and fresh hell and it's only going to get worse. Eventually we'll need to find a way out…

Very much agree on that. However people are contributing to this themselves by becoming activists within a company. That’s mingling the personal and the professional.

Also don’t bite the hand that feeds you. If you disagree with the hand so vehemently quit and take up the cause.

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#185

Post by throwawayhaxx99 »

buildbot wrote: post #131

It’s a really common refrain here that if you are employee critical of your employer you should expect to get fired… Well perhaps, but you’d think that specifically someone in AI ethics needs to be empowered to speak up against both internal external issues. Or did google just want an research ethics hit team against other companies technologies? Makes me wonder if project zero is really trying as hard as possible wi…

It seems like Google really likes firing people instead of free speech. Sure they can do that because of at will employment but at some point it has to start leaving a bad taste in everyone's mouths especially when these firings get publicized. At some point CS grads will start taking this into consideration when it comes to working at places and having their own political views. Who wants to work at a place where there's a witch hunt? This isn't just leftists getting fired either

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#186

Post by 2-tpg »

guardiangod wrote: post #103
sillysaurusx wrote: post #94

It's pretty important to get this story straight: She moved files when she wasn't supposed to. This seems like a pretty standard firing. People are already claiming on twitter that Google is assaulting ethical AI, and I just don't see it. Google did not immediately comment on those claims. Its statement said of Mitchell: “We confirmed that there were multiple violations of our code of conduct, as well as of our secur…

>She moved files when she wasn't supposed to If that's true, that's not very ethical is it?

She is an authority on Ethics, being listed on the ICLR conference as part of the Ethics Review Committee:

> Margaret Mitchell, Google Research and Machine Intelligence

But I do think they can miss her, since there are already 8 people responsible for Ethics and Diversity, with 11 responsible for the actual organization of the conference.

Maybe they can update https://iclr.cc/ to reflect the fact that she is not representing Google anymore?

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#187

Post by yortpyperty »

strangeloops85 wrote: post #139

Somehow Microsoft Research manages to be a much more open place than Google and has researchers publish critical pieces all the time. It's ultimately a bit sad that Google, the company started by two PhD students, is incapable of creating a similar culture to MSR.

not surprising. please read 'the age of surveillance capitalism' nearly every move by google (and friends) post-publication (of course, any move pre too) can be captured by the thesis of the book.

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#188

Post by ineedasername »

duckfang wrote: post #99

At the same time, Google unveiled a "Black owned businesses near me" on Google Maps. How has that been received? We need look no further than Twitter: (the Tl;Dr. racists are using this to lower all ratings of these Black owned businesses) https://twitter.com/dmetaxak/status/1362856231212212224 Google recently added a feature allowing users to search for "Black-owned businesses near you". They're advertising it all o…

I really didn't understand why they were doing that. It seemed very strange. I couldn't quite put my finger on why it didn't seem appropriate... just that it seemed wholly irrelevant to how I would decide where to shop. I freely admit, however, that as I middle aged white male I may have some blind spots.

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#189

Post by cobraetor »

jseliger wrote: post #157
legostormtroopr wrote: post #110

Out of curiousity I checked out Dr. Mitchells Twitter feed. On her feed for the past several months, shes been posting and reposting articles that are heavily critical of her employer. Now there is a line between public and private space, but many people use Twitter as a professional network. And Dr. Mitchell includes her Google credentials in her bio. So given her substantial, critical, public views of her employer…

I wouldn't be surprised to find more companies shifting to a "leave politics and religion at the door" stance again: https://jakeseliger.com/2020/12/03/dissent-insiders-and-outs...

Coinbase already took that stance. I'm not aware of any other companies that did.

* https://blog.coinbase.com/coinbase-is-a-mission-focused-comp...

* https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2020/10/01/coinbase-w...

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#190

Post by trashcan »

MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #105
chronic3802 wrote: post #97

- 135,000 Google employees - 2,000 signed a petition to support Timnit [1] - 2 employees resigned to support Timnit [2] When it comes to voting with your feet, no one actually gives a shit. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/04/thousands-petition-google-fo... [2] https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/04/tech/google-employees-quit/in...

This is something I feel like few people learn in life in the US. You may be morally right, but nobody ever has your back. The few that do you can probably call friends, but the many that don't will never lift a finger to help you legitimately when it matters.

In the Motorcycle Safety Foundation course, and probably in driver's ed everywhere there is the phrase: you can be right, or dead right. And they will write on your grave that you had the right of way.

Basically, is it more important to be right, or to be alive (or be employed).

Post reply on HN