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Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

reuters.com

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Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#991

Post by MKinley »

bzzzt wrote: post #920
MKinley wrote: post #807

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, and I believe this is in part because it is these kind of people that malware is targeted at. We, the tech savvy, will be smart enough to not do something because we pay attention at permissions or what extensions, programs, tools, etc are doing or want to do. The tech illiterate still do know how to use Google, search for what they want to do, click on the first thing that looks like it will do what they wa…

Tech savvyness and paying attention will not save you when you're bombarded with dark patterns all the time. Even then, I prefer not to be one click away from losing my privacy, money or being bombarded with ads.

If I am understanding you correctly, dark patterns are meant to be a psychological hit to you, it's not tech savvyness but clarity of mind and knowing that most every big business out there wants to make money off you and will do anything to get that money. This is a huge reason I am not on Facebook (among others, including the standard ones), and other social media platforms. I investigate claims myself, and do not trust what is thrown at me. Perhaps this is the biggest reason dark patterns have never worked on me. Also keeping a strong privacy/security setup that you don't compromise on helps too.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#992

Post by chrischen »

ThatPlayer wrote: post #877
chrischen wrote: post #834

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a device that lets you install your own apps (more or less), and it is an Android device. No-one is forcing you to buy an Apple device nor does Apple even have a monopoly in marketshare of mobile devices. Some of the security and excellent user experience in fact comes from the enforcing and prevention of arbitrary third party apps. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you don't want that experience g…

Similarly no one is forcing you to use third party apps. Apple can continue to enforce their App Store. And you can ignore the third party stores.

No one is forcing you to not jailbreak your iPhone, though Apple has no obligation to make it easy to do so with ongoing updates to iOS.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#993

Post by kuschku »

techpression wrote: post #969
kuschku wrote: post #926

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, Windows 10 only sells N editions. If you want to play back media, you'll have to buy media codecs separately in the Windows Store. And it turns out that was actually a benefit for consumers.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/get-windows-medi... “Included in clean installs of Windows 10 as well as upgrades to Windows 10 from Windows 8.1 or Windows 7.” My Windows 10 also plays H.264 from a clean install (defaults to Movies and TV viewer) and the list of installed codecs (supplied from Microsoft) contains mp4, xvid and even divx, so no idea where you get the idea that Windows 10 only sells as a N…

Your version doesn't include any H.265 or later codecs, and H.264 only the parts of the codec that are available freely, so not a single cent of your purchase goes towards the codec license.

If you try to play anything else, you'll have to buy the Microsoft H.265 Codec Pack in the Microsoft Store.

Which, depending on device, country, and time, varies between 0,99€ and 4,99$.

The point of Windows N was to avoid users (or governments) having to pay for bundled codecs they don't need.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#994

Post by chromanoid »

mbreese wrote: post #542
chromanoid wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference between a video game console and a portable multi purpose device with such a reach. Judges should take this into account. With great power comes great responsibility.

Modern game consoles can do a lot... and have their own app stores. Microsoft would love for me to use my Xbox to stream Netflix. I don’t think they are as far apart as you think. They are both walled gardens that are heavily controlled by their developers. Not to mention — this all started with a game developer that wasn’t happy with the distribution of their game. Nevermind that they abide by the same rules and fee…

No, that is a false analogy. Device capacity does not determine device usage. It's about market power and not about device capacity.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#995

Post by jimnotgym »

enos_feedler wrote: post #785
amelius wrote: post #769

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. Distribution of computer programs has been done since the beginning of computing. Also, there is innovation in the water supply (which most people are unaware of).

Can you send me your mailing address? I have a cool game for you to check out on a 3.5" floppy. It's also going to install a virus on your computer and you'll need to format your machine after. This was my life in the 6th grade and my dad literally beat me for messing up his computer. I don't want to go back there.

Nobody is saying you can't use just the Apple app store if you are more comfortable with that.

But I should also be allowed to use a floppy to get my software if i want.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#996

Post by techpression »

kuschku wrote: post #993
techpression wrote: post #969

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/get-windows-medi... “Included in clean installs of Windows 10 as well as upgrades to Windows 10 from Windows 8.1 or Windows 7.” My Windows 10 also plays H.264 from a clean install (defaults to Movies and TV viewer) and the list of installed codecs (supplied from Microsoft) contains mp4, xvid and even divx, so no idea where you get the idea that Windows 10 only sells as a N…

Your version doesn't include any H.265 or later codecs, and H.264 only the parts of the codec that are available freely, so not a single cent of your purchase goes towards the codec license. If you try to play anything else, you'll have to buy the Microsoft H.265 Codec Pack in the Microsoft Store. Which, depending on device, country, and time, varies between 0,99€ and 4,99$. The point of Windows N was to avoid users…

That is a complete rewrite of your original comment, Windows N is about a lot more than a few codecs, it excludes Skype, Windows Media Player and other media playback applications. Your claim was that Windows 10 only sells in N editions which is blatantly false.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#997

Post by kuschku »

techpression wrote: post #996
kuschku wrote: post #993

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your version doesn't include any H.265 or later codecs, and H.264 only the parts of the codec that are available freely, so not a single cent of your purchase goes towards the codec license. If you try to play anything else, you'll have to buy the Microsoft H.265 Codec Pack in the Microsoft Store. Which, depending on device, country, and time, varies between 0,99€ and 4,99$. The point of Windows N was to avoid users…

That is a complete rewrite of your original comment, Windows N is about a lot more than a few codecs, it excludes Skype, Windows Media Player and other media playback applications. Your claim was that Windows 10 only sells in N editions which is blatantly false.

Not really. The reason the EU wanted Windows N was to avoid users having to buy a bundle (the EU really dislikes bundle pricing). Skype is gone from all Windows 10 installs, and while WMP was able to access lots of special APIs, Groove (which is the only media player bundled on Windows 10) uses the same APIs as every other program, and relies on the same preinstalled codecs.

This provides the same situation as with Windows N: No Bundle pricing, no Microsoft programs having any special access.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#998

Post by enos_feedler »

jimnotgym wrote: post #995
enos_feedler wrote: post #785

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you send me your mailing address? I have a cool game for you to check out on a 3.5" floppy. It's also going to install a virus on your computer and you'll need to format your machine after. This was my life in the 6th grade and my dad literally beat me for messing up his computer. I don't want to go back there.

Nobody is saying you can't use just the Apple app store if you are more comfortable with that. But I should also be allowed to use a floppy to get my software if i want.

Solving your small problem creates a big problem for Apple at scale. The wrong people use floppies and everything just gets messed up. Whats to stop some incentive from coming along that nudges people to use floppies when they shouldnt. This is what happened to me in the 6th grade. Free games. Plus virus. Tough pill to swallow but the best solution is the current one. Lock it all down. Want to hack around? Go play on some open stack

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#999

Post by techpression »

kuschku wrote: post #997
techpression wrote: post #996

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a complete rewrite of your original comment, Windows N is about a lot more than a few codecs, it excludes Skype, Windows Media Player and other media playback applications. Your claim was that Windows 10 only sells in N editions which is blatantly false.

Not really. The reason the EU wanted Windows N was to avoid users having to buy a bundle (the EU really dislikes bundle pricing). Skype is gone from all Windows 10 installs, and while WMP was able to access lots of special APIs, Groove (which is the only media player bundled on Windows 10) uses the same APIs as every other program, and relies on the same preinstalled codecs. This provides the same situation as with W…

Not at all, the N spring from the anti competitive ruling in EU courts (2004 with associated fines) saying that MS couldn’t bundle WMP with a near-monopoly on the market. The condition was that MS was allowed to sell it with WMP as long as they offered a version without it (that’s Windows N). This has been the case since Windows XP N.

Windows 10 comes with Skype pre-installed.

I’m starting to think you’re merely guessing instead of actually having used Windows 10, because nothing you’ve said so far has checked out with actual installations.

You can just go to the Microsoft store and you’ll see “Windows 10” and “Windows 10 N”, which should be sufficient enough to prove that not all Windows 10 are N editions.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#1000

Post by hacknat »

suifbwish wrote: post #975
hacknat wrote: post #965

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is it's not completely closed. It's open, but they control the only gate into the system. That's a monopolistic practice, very akin to owning all the railroads. Actually it's probably worse than that, because the railroads were only about the transport of goods and people. Most people do more on their phones than anything else. People literally have sex on their phones now, and control their important per…

I understand it sucks being so reliant on a 3rd party and entrenched in their system but I’m sure you understand that they can legally “sunset” the App Store as a project like Google loves doing and not allow any new software on the device at all. We can’t enter into a contract with a company and expect to get something other than what was in the agreement. Just because a large part of the population starts relying o…

I don't disagree with you on some level, but I also think that society should have the right to say, "Okay, you've become a public utility now. Your market power is becoming a black-hole. Consider your market monopoly revoked". We have the right to do and say that as a society. We should do it sparingly and very carefully, but there's no reason we can't do it.
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