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Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

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Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#141

Post by refulgentis »

ineedasername wrote: post #119

So they fired an ethics leader because she thought something unethical might be going on and was taking steps to investigate it by automating a review of her email, or something like that. It seems she may have been passing on some of that information to persons outside of Google, which isn't great, but I also don't see much in the way of details on what that actually entailed, so it's hard to judge how inappropriate…

another way to frame it is she got fired for transferring a bulk dump of her corporate email to someone outside the company. I'm extremely sympathetic to the cause but I don't think it does any good to have such a blinkered approach to what happened

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#143

Post by [deleted] »

chronic3802 wrote: post #126

- 135,000 Google employees - 2,000 signed a petition to support Timnit [1] - 2 employees resigned to support Timnit [2] When it comes to voting with your feet, no one actually gives a shit. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/04/thousands-petition-google-fo... [2] https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/04/tech/google-employees-quit/in...

[deleted]

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#144

Post by ineedasername »

uoaei wrote: post #133
legostormtroopr wrote: post #110

Out of curiousity I checked out Dr. Mitchells Twitter feed. On her feed for the past several months, shes been posting and reposting articles that are heavily critical of her employer. Now there is a line between public and private space, but many people use Twitter as a professional network. And Dr. Mitchell includes her Google credentials in her bio. So given her substantial, critical, public views of her employer…

A right to free speech, and freedom from employer discrimination due to political beliefs.

Unfortunately, free speech protections are generally to protect you from government action that may suppress speech, while private entities have a lot more discretion.

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#145

Post by bcrosby95 »

chronic3802 wrote: post #126

- 135,000 Google employees - 2,000 signed a petition to support Timnit [1] - 2 employees resigned to support Timnit [2] When it comes to voting with your feet, no one actually gives a shit. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/04/thousands-petition-google-fo... [2] https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/04/tech/google-employees-quit/in...

Of course. Few people are willing to actually put their money where their mouth is.

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#146

Post by oblio »

uoaei wrote: post #133
legostormtroopr wrote: post #110

Out of curiousity I checked out Dr. Mitchells Twitter feed. On her feed for the past several months, shes been posting and reposting articles that are heavily critical of her employer. Now there is a line between public and private space, but many people use Twitter as a professional network. And Dr. Mitchell includes her Google credentials in her bio. So given her substantial, critical, public views of her employer…

A right to free speech, and freedom from employer discrimination due to political beliefs.

Free speech is almost purely limited to interactions with a state. Why are people trying to shoehorn it into everything?

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#147

Post by AdrianB1 »

" tying executive pay companywide to diversity and inclusion efforts." - how does this work? I cannot imagine the CTO doing recruiting of minorities to meet diversity targets instead of doing the work one was hired for. I saw this happening in other companies and that had devastating effects on hiring quality, employee morale and productivity.

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#148

Post by thundergolfer »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #117
thundergolfer wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which doc are you referring to? Could you link it? Your last sentence has the implication that people should not attempt the change or challenge from within the corporate capitalist ideology of the big tech companies, which together make up a large portion of the entire technology industry and the US stock market. They should just concede and “move on”. I’m kind of sympathetic to this view. Someone who joins a corpor…

The reference is to this doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ERi2crDToYhYjEjxRoOzO-uO...

Thanks.

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#149

Post by Wolfenstein98k »

chronic3802 wrote: post #97

- 135,000 Google employees - 2,000 signed a petition to support Timnit [1] - 2 employees resigned to support Timnit [2] When it comes to voting with your feet, no one actually gives a shit. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/04/thousands-petition-google-fo... [2] https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/04/tech/google-employees-quit/in...

The gulf between "I know what I am supposed to say" and "I truly believe in this" grows wider by the day.

Rarely do people resign out of principle...but when you're claiming that your employer actively does evil and harms the least among us, and then continue to work for them, it is obvious that you are either entirely without morals OR you are saying what is socially rewarded to say, without meaning it.

Neither position is good for the soul.

Re: Margaret Mitchell fired from Google

#150

Post by izacus »

rmk wrote: post #4

For people who are familiar with this, I have a question. How does research in an industrial lab vs. a university work, insofar as independence is concerned? In a university, aside from well-defined ethics guidelines for conducting research (e.g., involving animal or human subjects), staff are generally free to publish the findings of their research at any venue they see fit. Many are tenured professors, so they also…

> In a university, aside from well-defined ethics guidelines for conducting research (e.g., involving animal or human subjects), staff are generally free to publish the findings of their research at any venue they see fit.

I'm not sure what university were you at where that was true - academia is horribly political (in many ways more than corporations in some ways less) and until you get tenure your job is to put up and shut up. Your career is dependant on good recommendation letters and goodwill of quality advisors.

Attacking your organization, supervisor or lab will end your career faster than Google cancels products.

Even after you gain tenure, you're still dependant on external funding to keep your research going and employ postdocs and other researchers. That funding disappears really quickly if you decide to start an assault against your organization or people paying you. Like these Googlers did.

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