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Federal Charges Against Stanford University Researcher Expanded

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Re: Federal Charges Against Stanford University Researcher Expanded

#51

Post by XorNot »

Jtsummers wrote: post #33
thaumasiotes wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The system described sounds like a terrible idea. In order to prove someone lied on the form when they said "No" to "Are you a spy?", you have to prove they're a spy. At that point, you're free to deport them; the form is irrelevant.

I'd wager there is no outright "Are you a spy?" question, but questions written that are highly likely make or break questions (Who's your current employer? Listing a foreign government as your employer on a student visa application may often be a deal breaker depending on the relationship between the countries). By giving a false answer, you've committed fraud. It doesn't even require you to be a proper spy of any s…

The upfront declaration is "I have not worked for a foreign intelligence service" or something as blunt. "spy" wouldn't be used because it's too specific - a good lawyer could drive a wedge in the distinction between "spy" and "employee, not a spy".

This isn't 4D chess, it's creating a reason you can detain someone once you know what they're upto without having to blow what you know about their real activities (which might lead to too many shutting down before you want them too).

Re: Federal Charges Against Stanford University Researcher Expanded

#52

Post by refenestrator »

zapita wrote: post #40
thaumasiotes wrote: post #36

> "This prosecution will help to protect elite institutions like Stanford from illicit foreign influences." ...how? I assume everyone was aware that if she said something, it was being said by her. Where does the illicit foreign influence come in? Suppose her cover story had been completely accurate -- instead of being a member of the PLA, she was someone who had "only" served in the PLA for 11 years. That person had…

If there was nothing nefarious going on, why did she attempt to conceal her identity?

What nefarious goal could there be for this medical research?

Are we at the point of zero-sum where a successful treatment in China is a loss for us?

Sure, deport her if she lied, but I'd stop way short of 'nefarious' myself.

Re: Federal Charges Against Stanford University Researcher Expanded

#53

Post by syops »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #47
kevinventullo wrote: post #3

The superseding indictment alleges that she then attempted to delete a digital folder of documents on an external hard drive that she possessed containing records relating to her military service and visa fraud, including: - A digital version of a letter from Song, written in Chinese and addressed to the People’s Republic of China consulate in New York, in which Song explained that her stated employer, “Beijing Xi Di…

What exactly do they have on the lady, except that she is an officer in the PLA? OK, she's wearing uniform and is employed at a military hospital, but members of the US Medical Corps are officers at military hospitals. It's easy to understand why a physician might wish to work in brain disease. What secrets were exfiltrated?

From the article:

"Members of the Chinese People's Liberation Army cannot lie on their visa applications and come to the United States to study without expecting the FBI and our partners to catch them." said Assistant Director Alan E. Kohler Jr. of the FBI's Counterintelligence Division. "Time and again, the Chinese government prioritizes stealing U.S. research and taking advantage of our universities over obeying international norms."

It doesn't matter if she was unsuccessful at exfiltrating secrets. What matters is that, apparently, she's an agent of a foreign government who lied about said affiliation on her application for a visa.

Re: Federal Charges Against Stanford University Researcher Expanded

#54

Post by kevinventullo »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #47
kevinventullo wrote: post #3

The superseding indictment alleges that she then attempted to delete a digital folder of documents on an external hard drive that she possessed containing records relating to her military service and visa fraud, including: - A digital version of a letter from Song, written in Chinese and addressed to the People’s Republic of China consulate in New York, in which Song explained that her stated employer, “Beijing Xi Di…

What exactly do they have on the lady, except that she is an officer in the PLA? OK, she's wearing uniform and is employed at a military hospital, but members of the US Medical Corps are officers at military hospitals. It's easy to understand why a physician might wish to work in brain disease. What secrets were exfiltrated?

I’m not sure what else, but this alone would prove she lied on her Visa application and lied to authorities in an interview. From the article:

If convicted, she faces a maximum statutory penalty of up to 10 years in prison and a fine of $250,000 for the visa fraud count; up to 20 years in prison and a fine of $250,000 for each of the obstruction and alteration charges; and up to five years in prison and a fine of $250,000 for the false statements charge.

Re: Federal Charges Against Stanford University Researcher Expanded

#55

Post by HarryHirsch »

kevinventullo wrote: post #54
HarryHirsch wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly do they have on the lady, except that she is an officer in the PLA? OK, she's wearing uniform and is employed at a military hospital, but members of the US Medical Corps are officers at military hospitals. It's easy to understand why a physician might wish to work in brain disease. What secrets were exfiltrated?

I’m not sure what else, but this alone would prove she lied on her Visa application and lied to authorities in an interview. From the article: If convicted, she faces a maximum statutory penalty of up to 10 years in prison and a fine of $250,000 for the visa fraud count; up to 20 years in prison and a fine of $250,000 for each of the obstruction and alteration charges; and up to five years in prison and a fine of $25…

The point is: why bother prosecuting that crap when patently no state secrets are involved? Why not simply revoke the visa, deport the person and ban her from re-entry? Do they want to create uncertainty for people who have served in the PLA or generally discourage Chinese researchers from working in the US? The purpose of the exercise is wholly unclear! What is the Department of State up to?

Re: Federal Charges Against Stanford University Researcher Expanded

#56

Post by Judgmentality »

layoutIfNeeded wrote: post #49
noir_lord wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world has moved on. You can’t transplant a platter into another reader, the old days of Guttman method don’t really apply anymore, density is so high that outside of research settings it’s just not practical. That said I still put a drill through mine before disposing of them, because close to zero isn’t zero.

>You can’t transplant a platter into another reader Then why do I get tons of results on YouTube of people doing exactly that, when searching for “HDD transplant”?

I typed it into YouTube and every result (of the first dozen or so) is years old, including the most recent video citing an example where it's impossible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bml8ovt4nfI

Re: Federal Charges Against Stanford University Researcher Expanded

#57

Post by refurb »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #46
president wrote: post #27

For every one of these cases, there are likely tons more that have gone undetected. Our open institutions don't work in a world filled with rich nation states with bad intentions and a populace and politicians totally misinformed about the current threat and/or unwilling to do anything about it. China has bested the US and we should at least be honest about it.

> Our open institutions don't work in a world filled with rich nation states with bad intentions How does that sentiment apply here? Suppose the maximum possible malice on the part of the CCP, the PLA, and Song Chen. What could they have accomplished by getting a neurologist into a research project?

Stealing IP that rightfully belonged to Stanford, starting their own institute in China based on it and then owning the entire field?

Re: Federal Charges Against Stanford University Researcher Expanded

#58

Post by Godel_unicode »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #55
kevinventullo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure what else, but this alone would prove she lied on her Visa application and lied to authorities in an interview. From the article: If convicted, she faces a maximum statutory penalty of up to 10 years in prison and a fine of $250,000 for the visa fraud count; up to 20 years in prison and a fine of $250,000 for each of the obstruction and alteration charges; and up to five years in prison and a fine of $25…

The point is: why bother prosecuting that crap when patently no state secrets are involved? Why not simply revoke the visa, deport the person and ban her from re-entry? Do they want to create uncertainty for people who have served in the PLA or generally discourage Chinese researchers from working in the US? The purpose of the exercise is wholly unclear! What is the Department of State up to?

They want to discourage people from doing the things with which she is charged; lying on visa applications, obstructing justice, and making false statements. Those all seem like good goals to me?

Re: Federal Charges Against Stanford University Researcher Expanded

#59

Post by Isamu »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #55
kevinventullo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure what else, but this alone would prove she lied on her Visa application and lied to authorities in an interview. From the article: If convicted, she faces a maximum statutory penalty of up to 10 years in prison and a fine of $250,000 for the visa fraud count; up to 20 years in prison and a fine of $250,000 for each of the obstruction and alteration charges; and up to five years in prison and a fine of $25…

The point is: why bother prosecuting that crap when patently no state secrets are involved? Why not simply revoke the visa, deport the person and ban her from re-entry? Do they want to create uncertainty for people who have served in the PLA or generally discourage Chinese researchers from working in the US? The purpose of the exercise is wholly unclear! What is the Department of State up to?

> What is the Department of State up to?

Is not enforcing existing law one of their functions?

Re: Federal Charges Against Stanford University Researcher Expanded

#60

Post by notadev »

kevinventullo wrote: post #3

The superseding indictment alleges that she then attempted to delete a digital folder of documents on an external hard drive that she possessed containing records relating to her military service and visa fraud, including: - A digital version of a letter from Song, written in Chinese and addressed to the People’s Republic of China consulate in New York, in which Song explained that her stated employer, “Beijing Xi Di…

The FBI probably had a copy of the drive prior to her ever realizing she was under investigation. They have some pretty advanced physical access methods, even having cans of spray able dust to ensure nothing looks disturbed.
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