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WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

reuters.com

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Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#251

Post by lxgr »

dillondoyle wrote: post #170
justapassenger wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook has entirely failed to utilise it - to allow external systems to connect in so that businesses can do business on there. They weren’t allowed to do that under old TOS, and the whole point of this update is to allow data sharing when contacting businesses, that will allow building business tools. https://faq.whatsapp.com/general/security-and-privacy/answer...

Yeah I don't understand the outrage? It brings more functionality like Messenger to interface with businesses - which I have found value in. For instance United service there was quicker and better than using the phone line to change/re-book flights. Maybe I'm missing something?

> Yeah I don't understand the outrage?

Same here. Don't get me wrong, I'm as deeply suspicious of everything that Facebook touches as the next person.

But here Facebook is seemingly doing a pretty normal/expected thing, and people (and more or less reputable news sources) portray it as a data-privacy scandal?

What's worst is that at least in my country, at least half of all articles about this were mentioning Telegram as a "secure, encrypted alternative to WhatsApp". This makes me very sad.

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#252

Post by smashah »

hansel_der wrote: post #200
smashah wrote: post #119

Too big to fail. WhatsApp should be transferred to something like the UN. It is no longer a cool startup/app. It is the main communication infrastructure for the majority of the planet. Yet it's in the hand of unblinking cyborgs.

> It is the main communication infrastructure for the majority of the planet. sure? afaik whatsapp is "only" domniant in five-eyes, europe and latin-america but thats not where the majority of ppl live.

What is five eyes?

I think the bounds of your knowledge are deceiving you as to the extent to which WhatsApp is used all over the world.

It is the dominant communication app in the entirety of the middle east, Africa and Asia (not including China) also.

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#253

Post by smashah »

sneak wrote: post #250
smashah wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was speaking about human beings, not the planet in a celestial/natural sense. Hope that makes sense.

So was I. Only a very slight majority of human beings have an option to access the internet, and a majority of human beings do not use the internet at all.

Ah I see where the confusion lies. In this thread we are discussing a smartphone application that requires an internet connection - I extend those prerequisites/qualifiers to the word "planet".

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#254

Post by pkulak »

retromario wrote: post #232
pkulak wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat the same for me, though I'm in a bit later stage than you are. I moved my family to Signal as well, but we all got a bit frustrated with the lack of features. No (good) Chromebook support, no message editing, the HARD requirement on owning a phone (which locked out my kids), no message history or even a way to backup messages, etc. A few weeks ago I spun up a tiny EC2 instance, threw a matrix server on it, a…

How does the Matrix experience compare to Signal, feature-wise? I ran into similar frustrations with Signal's lack of polish in certain areas when trying to move family over. There's something to be said for why WhatsApp is so popular, it feels like the most full-featured and polished communications app.

Every issue I had with Signal, and listed here, is solved.

One issue I have with the Element iOS client is that it doesn't respect system font sizing. So, for older relatives, that app can't be used. I put my mom on something called "Fluffy Chat" though, which does respect font sizes. If Element fixes that, I'll move her back again. It's kinda nice having multiple clients to choose from, though Element is by far the most polished.

https://github.com/vector-im/element-ios/issues/3245

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#255

Post by tambourine_man »

fartcannon wrote: post #186
secfirstmd wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dont you think that maybe you are taking things a bit far if you are losing lots of friends over it? What's your threat model? You can bridge a number of these services if you want. Or use a locked down device for them. FAANG privacy crap causing you to lose friends is kinda letting them win a bit too much.

Bah, what friends are they that ignore someone because they don't have Facebook or believe in a better future for everyone. Better off without them, in my opinion. As I mentioned, they just move on to the next worse thing and the cycle of stupid choices continues.

I have mixed feelings on this. One the one hand, yes, true friends will use smoke signals to reach you if needed.

On the other, like you, I’ve missed many events of people I like but am not that close to, because everyone is on WhatsApp, why didn’t you come, oh, right, you’re that one guy.

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#256

Post by Groxx »

dillondoyle wrote: post #170
justapassenger wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook has entirely failed to utilise it - to allow external systems to connect in so that businesses can do business on there. They weren’t allowed to do that under old TOS, and the whole point of this update is to allow data sharing when contacting businesses, that will allow building business tools. https://faq.whatsapp.com/general/security-and-privacy/answer...

Yeah I don't understand the outrage? It brings more functionality like Messenger to interface with businesses - which I have found value in. For instance United service there was quicker and better than using the phone line to change/re-book flights. Maybe I'm missing something?

At least part of the outrage is that, while that use is quite reasonable, the TOS did not constrain the sharing to only that use.

So they were saying one thing in legal terms (we can share your data with facebook to improve facebook products) and another elsewhere (we will only share minimal data about and with businesses you communicate with, within this feature).

Personally I trust them to adhere to their TOS far more than their newsroom blog. So while I believe their short-term plans are reasonable, in the long-term Facebook has demonstrated repeatedly that they will do whatever they can get away with.

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#257

Post by tambourine_man »

edoloughlin wrote: post #88
tambourine_man wrote: post #41

It's really hard for me to understand why and how something fails or succeeds to grab the public's attention. I've been complaining and refusing to use WhatsApp for years, mostly because it's centralized at the worst possible company. But a boycott of one is not a powerful move and no one cared. Now, for whatever reason, nothing has effectively changed and millions suddenly care. I mean, I'm glad they finally do, do…

Now, for whatever reason, nothing has effectively changed and millions suddenly care This was discussed on a You Are Not So Smart [1] episode some time over the last few months (I had a look but couldn't find it). The basic idea was that collective behaviour can change in an instant because of multiple pressures that have been building over time and looking for a single cause (or trigger) is fruitless because no one…

It’s certainly an emergent behavior of some kind, yes. Thanks for the links.

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#258

Post by pkulak »

pmlnr wrote: post #90

A group of my friends asked to set up a groupchat recently, our requirements varied. Among them: - needs to be simple (not all of them are techies) - need to be possible to run on desktop without any mobile need - not Facebook (my requirement) So I went and set an XMPP server up on the same machine I have my email and webserver, and wrote a quick guide on how to install blabber.im (a Conversations fork), and register…

Interesting. I've found Element to be seriously polished, nice looking, and a joy to use across web, Mac, Linux, iOS and Android.

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#259

Post by qznc »

Bakary wrote: post #188
qznc wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My hope is that this triggers a second backlash.

But we just got proof that backlashes can be ignored, so what's the point?

Ignored? Lots and lots of people installed Signal or Telegram. Some of them will stay.

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#260

Post by TheJoYo »

korijn wrote: post #209

Honestly, as an engineer, looking at the way FAANG are becoming middle-men in just about every part of human life, I would rather ban all social media and more generally mass communication software outright than try and regulate it. It feels to me like it's gotten to the point where this type of software is doing more harm than good. I know that the software itself is not the issue, the tech has potential to do good,…

A $5 VSP server hosts all the social networking I need and it's owned and controlled by me.

I think people overestimate the value that Facebook gives them because of the social graph it holds ransom.

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