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How and why I stopped buying new laptops

lowtechmagazine.com

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Re: How and why I stopped buying new laptops

#81

Post by rootsudo »

I disagree with alot of this article - the person has no sense of ownership and just knows to buy parts, and take it to a shop.

It's the same argument with new/old car.

Old things require more handling, care and general respect.

New things, last longer, because they're new.

Swapping in used parts is no guarantee, like his "6 months" repair of his fan.

NEW Old stock FRU for Lenovo/IBM are great.

I agree with the article in question, but, I just don't like how the author wrote it and has a dependence on "repair shops."

Repair shops are nothing more than a middle man, and if you run old equipment, you need to be redundant, ready to move systems and capable of repairing it yourself.

"This is a hack"

No it's not, it's a known finance topic called depreaction, and the risk/liability of deprecation assets.

Would I source, buy and deploy 10-40 macbook pro/air from the previous decade? Yes, a i7, 8gb/16gm model can be had refurb in great shape for $250-300, vs a comparative new model for $1000 each.

Having no policy/plan in place to swap out entirely, scary.

Would I do the same with Lenovo? Yes.

Macbook Air/Pro are great because the reduction of moving parts and great quality and metal fame really outlasts, and they can even run windows. So screw OSX if you don't want to be "reduced" to a latest OSX version.

It sounds silly, but a 10yr old macbook, you can max out to 16gb, even upgrade the CPU (you need a proper soldeing station, but I admit that's too much) and you can swap out everything and it's comparative to an average new machine.

When I mean average, new, I mean $300-600, comparing a new $1k+ mbp/air is no go, but even for a prev I7 to current i7, there is not "much" diff from 2014 to 2020.

etc etc etc

Re: How and why I stopped buying new laptops

#82

Post by prosaic-hacker »

idlewords wrote: post #79
tptacek wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good thing. People who want to spend money on shiny machines (I'll probably get the next M1 iteration) pay a premium they're happy to pay, while a secondary market for previous iterations grows to satisfy price-conscious users.

This is exactly the way the car market works, except you can't (yet) lease a new laptop for three years.

I don't know where you live but companies have been leasing computer equipment for decades. Usually for 3 to 5 years or monthly for special projects.

Over 20 years ago I joined a company as Director of IT. In the first 10 days I cancelled several thousands of dollar of monthly leases of equipment that siting unused from projects that were over but not returned. Nobody looked at the leases while the Directors position was being filled.

Random IT leasing article from google. https://www.costowl.com/rental/equipment-leasing-it-cost.htm...

Re: How and why I stopped buying new laptops

#83

Post by paulcole »

pjerem wrote: post #64
paulcole wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said they didn’t. I said don’t delude yourself that buying a used laptop has any real impact on the environment. There’s simply no way to have a biological child and be environmentally friendly. Can’t put it any more simply. I’ve got no issue with people who want biological kids. Just acknowledge that it’s a selfish choice and don’t pretend that you can buy a used laptop like that matters in the slightest.

I think you underestimate network effect. What is important is not your direct impact on environment by using a old computer. But what really is, is : - proving to the world around you that the same work can be done with a good old computer for 10x less money. - proving yourself that life can be lived without buying new things every once a while (computers, cars, furniture ...) - enabling basically everyone to have a…

> it forces you to understand how such a central concept of our era just works and how you, as a human being, have the power to make it work as long as possible

It does no such thing.

Instead it tricks someone into thinking that buying a used laptop is impactful when it absolutely truly isn’t. It lets them feel good about the many truly awful decisions they make on a daily basis.

If a person thinks that buying a used anything is how we “make it work as long as possible” they are sorely mistaken. It’s like thinking a guy sticking an oar in the water is going to slow the Titanic. Yes, technically the Titanic has slowed down by a minute amount but the icebergs not going to notice the difference.

> What's the point of preserving this planet if the humanity is going to die in the next 100 years?

This is a great question and one we’re seeing play out right now.

I don’t think the timeline is as short as 100 years but life 250 years from now is going to be absolutely awful. Personally, I don’t care one bit. I’ll be dead and I’m not adding more people to the mess.

But if someone does care and they’re having kids, they need to do a helluva lot more than teach them to buy used laptops.

Re: How and why I stopped buying new laptops

#84

Post by Nilrem404 »

underseacables wrote: post #35

What frustrates me is that the continual push forward of major operating systems forces you to purchase a new laptop. I have a 2013 MacBook that works wonderfully but Apple no longer provides updates for it, and eventually the browsers will stop supporting it. It’s almost like there is a general movement towards forcing us to buy new technology by rendering older devices obsolete.

I'm going to be that guy...

Buck the "major operating systems."

Run Linux.

Re: How and why I stopped buying new laptops

#86

Post by kasey_junk »

prosaic-hacker wrote: post #82
idlewords wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the way the car market works, except you can't (yet) lease a new laptop for three years.

I don't know where you live but companies have been leasing computer equipment for decades. Usually for 3 to 5 years or monthly for special projects. Over 20 years ago I joined a company as Director of IT. In the first 10 days I cancelled several thousands of dollar of monthly leases of equipment that siting unused from projects that were over but not returned. Nobody looked at the leases while the Directors position…

I suspect he meant in the consumer market. You can effectively lease mobile devices. It’s IDD it’s not commonplace for laptops.

Re: How and why I stopped buying new laptops

#87

Post by paulcole »

fulafel wrote: post #59
paulcole wrote: post #6

The environmental impact of an individual person buying a new vs. used laptop isn’t even worth considering. If an individual can sway the actions of thousands or tens of thousands of people, then it’s worth considering, perhaps it is. How people (not necessarily the author) will scrutinize the environmental consequences of inconsequential decisions while willfully ignoring the big picture never ceases to amaze me. Ki…

Also cars. But in the greater scheme of things, this is the big problem of environmental self-whataboutism. Do what you can, even smaller things. For example, if you do decide to have a kid, doing the other things will instill better values on them and will mitigate them getting angry with you for making their world unliveable when they develop thinking capabilities.

> Do what you can, even smaller things

I completely disagree. We’re so close to 100% fucked that if you’re not willing to do the big things, just do whatever you want and enjoy the ride. If you’re alive now, you’re not going to be around when the bill really comes due anyway.

Re: How and why I stopped buying new laptops

#88

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

mickotron wrote: post #58
saagarjha wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, this is not how Mac users buy computers at all, unless they are quite well off or have someone else paying for them. Most people run Macs for half a decade if not more.

Running 2011 macbook as mostly daily driver, was daily driver for much of its life, has run linux most of its life.

The only thing keeping me from getting apple silicon right now is 8gb of ram. I mean I don't even have an option to upgrade. i don't care how much apple has optimized the architecture. If you make your is require like 4gbs idle, 8gbs is not enough for the other stuff I use. Also the fact that they don't even offer 1tb memory sub 2k right now is a joke. I know they milk people but this is ridiculous.

Re: How and why I stopped buying new laptops

#89

Post by forgotmypw17 »

timw4mail wrote: post #66
forgotmypw17 wrote: post #44

This is one of the reasons I thoroughly test my websites on older hardware and browsers. Just got finished doing basic testing on an G4 Mac with Firefox 2.x and similar vintage Safari and IE. Internet+Web is amazing, almost miraculous technology, enabling even 25-year-old devices adequate access with a little bit of forethought.

How do you deal with TLS?

I stick to plaintext http and don't use it for anything sensitive or private.

Re: How and why I stopped buying new laptops

#90

Post by inawarminister »

esotericn wrote: post #31

The X60s is magnificent. I love mine and may also buy more in the future. Just a fantastic piece of kit. If only the mainboard were upgradable... The lack of webcam is a bonus as far as I'm concerned; "Zoom culture" can burn.

There's the X62 upgrade kit, which is basically refurbishment of X60/X61 with 2018-era hardware. Might be up to your alley.

I would be interested in any Ryzen aftermarket kits as well too hehe..

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