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I built ByteDance's censorship machine

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Re: I built ByteDance's censorship machine

#61
This is what corporate media wants in America.

The same people behind the Iraq war are now outrage machines trying to drum up support for censorship in the name of stopping a new threat... "homegrown Al Qaeda" wearing a MAGA hat. I know this will be divisive, but the NYT needs to formally retract their reporting of the attacks on the capitol:

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-false-and-exaggerated-c...

Re: I built ByteDance's censorship machine

#62
post #10
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do the same thing in the west. Look at the people you see in ads and on TV, it's always an idealized look at what the people in power WANT society to look like. My company recently moved away from animated characters back to using humans in their ads. Most of the people in our ads are mixed race, you can't really tell if they're asian, white, arab, or "tanned". So it's the same promotion of a genetic look, just wi…

> We do the same thing in the west. Look at the people you see in ads and on TV, it's always an idealized look at what the people in power WANT society to look like. What? It’s all about the money. Ads, and tv (which is simply a honeypot to draw ad viewers) want to connect with as many viewers as possible in order to sell as much product (cars, cereal, or whatever) as possible. In the 1950s US the only people with ap…

> I have no idea what the phrase “people in power WANT society to look like” really means.

OP wasn't exactly ambiguous. Only thing that was missing from "people in power" was maybe three sets of parantheses enclosing it.

Re: I built ByteDance's censorship machine

#63
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been raised in a democracy and raising my kids in a dictatorship, I think there's a lot of misunderstanding from both side. People in democracies cannot comprehend how anyone in a dictatorship could live anything else than miserable, and people in dictatorship mostly see people in democracies as hypocrite imperialists who lie to themselves about who truly rules. The funny thing is that, well, it mostly all dep…

That’s discounting the forced sterilization, imprisonment, and extermination of the target du jour, > One is an authoritative report documenting the systematic sterilization of Uighur women. The other was the seizure by U.S. Customs and Border Protection of 13 tons of products made from human hair suspected of being forcibly removed from Uighurs imprisoned in concentration camps. - https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/07/1…

I don't disagree with you but...

> They were the in-group until they weren't. They died because they weren't members of the party.

So were they the in-group or not? Most people in occupied Europe did not approve at all of nazi germany. Sure, there were some collaborationist but most europeans did totally disapprove nazi germany.

It's not the same as people who voted for communism then got was they asked for: in my opinion, when you vote for a totalitarian society, it's just fair game that in return you get what you asked for (I know, I know, the ultra-left leaning are going to say that "this wasn't true communism and next time, believe us, we're going to make it work").

You cannot compare occupied Europe who didn't ask to live under a totalitarian society to those who supported communism.

Re: I built ByteDance's censorship machine

#64
post #54

> At the time, I was a tech worker at ByteDance, where I helped develop tools and platforms for content moderation. In other words, I had helped build the system that censored accounts like mine. What do you mean "in other words"? Are there other words? How does one get into this situation without realizing what they are really doing? It looks obvious in retrospect, but what is not obvious back then?

I don’t think the original source was in anyway unaware of what they were doing. They’re not making any attempt to excuse their behaviour, just describe and explain what it’s like to work at a Chinese tech company. We shouldn’t admonish those failing to stand-up for our ideals, when they live in a world where those ideals get you at best censored, and at worst disappeared.

You are right, but I was legitimately curious. At the very least, they have the choice of not working in that particular role/company. Further down the article they mention their colleagues had studied journalism and raised some eyebrows, and that he/she wanted to change things from the inside, if only by a little, then realized they were just a powerless cog. I'm going to guess they must be in their late 20s / early 30s now.

Re: I built ByteDance's censorship machine

#65

While most of the post is what I would expect, the minority language censorship was unexpected. It’s another sign of China’s ethnocentrism/Han Supremacist culture play out. It’s a real shame to see this sort of enforced death of linguistic diversity.

Douyin even banned speakers of Cantonese [0][1], a language spoken by 80M+ speakers and a top-20 language in the world [2].

Cantonese was widely spoken in Guangdong until the CCP actively wiped it out [3]. Among the 204 members of the CCP Central Committee, only 2 are from Guangdong [4]. Guangdong generated the highest GDP among all 31 administrative divisions [5], and doesn’t get its fair share of high ranking officials.

It’s not Han supremacy. It’s Mandarin-Han supremacy.

[0] https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200402/03110144220/tikto...

[1] https://www.scmp.com/abacus/culture/article/3078365/chinas-v... (paywalled)

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_num...

[3] https://www.businessinsider.com/china-is-forcing-its-biggest...

[4] https://www.sohu.com/a/429814378_469134 (in Chinese)

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_administrative...

Re: I built ByteDance's censorship machine

#66

> When I was at ByteDance, we received multiple requests from the bases to develop an algorithm that could automatically detect when a Douyin user spoke Uyghur, and then cut off the livestream session. Disgusting.

This comment is getting downvoted. How? At least make an argument for why this is not a disgusting practice.

Re: I built ByteDance's censorship machine

#67

This is what corporate media wants in America. The same people behind the Iraq war are now outrage machines trying to drum up support for censorship in the name of stopping a new threat... "homegrown Al Qaeda" wearing a MAGA hat. I know this will be divisive, but the NYT needs to formally retract their reporting of the attacks on the capitol: https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-false-and-exaggerated-c...

What happened to Glen? He's clearly angry at media like NYT for narrative spinning and reporting mistakes. This entire article is about how they hastily reported Officer Sisnick was killed by the mob, but as of now we don't definitively know how he died yet. That's basically it. Almost all of his reporting is taking a microscope to US left media and policies, while blatantly failing to report on any egregious errors with US right media and policies.

It's like siding with Putin because RT will find some sort of dirt on the opposition.

Re: I built ByteDance's censorship machine

#68
post #47
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you asked the question and demonstrated how the answer is yes.

Well i also said i don't think journalism works in the post before. So my position on this is still that i don't think we have a solution.

That seems fair, at least in the context you describe (not sure i'm there but that's not important).

I think the 'pay attention to the media source and journalist and decide if you think they're good' is a viable route in the meantime even in the context you provided.

The look stuff up yourself kinda thing always reminds me of the conspiracy theories that people develop after they 'research'.... it's so easy to find what you want to find...

Re: I built ByteDance's censorship machine

#69
post #20

> As a young unicorn, ByteDance does not have strong government relationships like other tech giants do, so it's walking a tightrope every second. For those in free countries: when you build moderation tools and use them to silence political dissent "because you have to / to play the game" the game plays you. There is no one "too big" to be crushed by those with the material source of political power [1] and everyone…

The question is what should we, western nations, do about this? Should we keep hiring, sponsoring and giving away residency to engineers who made the decision to help building these platforms? Or collectively decide not to reward these behaviors?

Build distributed systems that can't be taken down. Social media could be built on IPFS and file coin and lib P2P. Protocols that have no ownership or entity to attack via political means. Email already works this way in a sense.

Re: I built ByteDance's censorship machine

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is what should we, western nations, do about this? Should we keep hiring, sponsoring and giving away residency to engineers who made the decision to help building these platforms? Or collectively decide not to reward these behaviors?

Build distributed systems that can't be taken down. Social media could be built on IPFS and file coin and lib P2P. Protocols that have no ownership or entity to attack via political means. Email already works this way in a sense.

"So how do we do it?"

"Just do it."

It's easy to say that, but it's obviously not working in the real world. You have to create incentive structures that reward the desired behavior.

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