Blub programmer telling why you should program in Blub.
Almost everyone is a Blub programmer, including pg who coined the term:
The interesting thing about Blub programmers is that they do not know they are Blub programmers.
Hate Java? You’re fighting the wrong battle.
31–40 of 186 posts
Re: Hate Java? You’re fighting the wrong battle.
#32So, which battle are Java haters fighting? Java is mostly-ubiquitous and is "good enough" for a number of common tasks, and has good enough structure for mediocre programmers working on important-but-uninteresting problems. As a result (and the blog author says this), there is enough hate-worthy Java code there, just as there used to be enough hate-worthy C and C++ code around, and there probably is enough hate-worth…
I definitely agree with your sentiment. If you're working on your own personal projects/startup, most of the time you aren't gonna choose Java, but another language whether it be Python, Ruby, etc. But if you're in a corporation, you don't have the flexibility and freedom to choose what you want to work for. This association of corporate life with Java contributes to people's hatred of using Java. I bet if corporations started using Python, more and more people would hate Python as well if they had to use it on a daily basis for boring, business processes
When I actually used Java in one of my first personal projects, i found it very fun to use. But when I had to use it in my first job, my interest and enthusiasm waned.
Re: Hate Java? You’re fighting the wrong battle.
#33The interesting point in this for me was the idea that Java, or any other development platform with an "enterprise" sticker slapped on it, will be the obvious choice for a given problem space simply because it has the sticker.
I've been in the situation several times where technology decisions are made based on brand. The Java solution is the only one evaluated "just because".
Re: Hate Java? You’re fighting the wrong battle.
#34I don't specifically hate Java the language, although I'm not enamoured with it either. I do hate the whole culture / attitude and baggage that comes with the language if you have to use it in an enterprise environment. That same culture that warped XML from something moderately useful into a horrible joke. Same goes for SOAP, UML and basically all things 'enterprise'. edit: I gave up on the whole thing when I had to…
Yes, we were talking about this specific thing at work the other day. How come all non-trivial Java programs end up a mass of Factory and Implementation classes?! Several of the systems I support even weave in Spring, which while helping in some ways, completely obliterates readability. :(
I believe it is because the complexity more or less has to exist, when you remove it from one place(in java's case the base language) you add it in another(in java's case pattern soup). Just think about how you would solve the problems patterns solve for Java in other languages. In every case that doesn't require pattern soup involves language features Java left out.
Re: Hate Java? You’re fighting the wrong battle.
#35Oddly missing the point for an article about missing the point. Either you care about the future and prestige of your platform, or you don't (COBOL). If you do care about the prestige of the JVM, the future is still definitely awesome. Scala, Clojure, JRuby and all of the other wonderful languages provide a common base for interoperability. That's pretty sweet. Java the language, as a secure place to get a job is ent…
I certainly identify with your point, but I actually had the opposite reaction to this article; particularly the second half. I started my career working on 'serious' software, then switched to web applications for a few years, and have recently settled into building multi-faceted, research-oriented systems -- and throughout the entire experience, I have consistently found myself having to apologize for the hype and…
Right but there's a difference between hype and experimentation with new tools and methodologies.
Cargo-culting is never a good idea. But to say that new and better techniques have not come out of (or been popularized by) new movements in software and business is simply false.
The stodginess and perhaps arrogance of academic and deeper research posts are just as obnoxious and hobbling as novelty-chasing unprincipled startup entrepreneur.
We should pick technologies because they're the right choice for the tasks we're trying to accomplish. Sometimes that requires reaching for tried and true technologies (POSIX ftw after all), but sometimes new technologies really do change the world, and we should do our best to encourage that.
Lastly, it's really just not true that all press is good press. You can gloss over occasional bad press with a much larger weight of good press, or converting a lot of bad press into good press with a small group of people (Palin's "Lamestream Media"), but bad press is just bad press.
Being known for starting flamewars w/o additional contributions to the community pretty quickly marks you as a troll.
Re: Hate Java? You’re fighting the wrong battle.
#36I'm going to cite Steve Pavlina here: http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/07/how-to-get-from-a-7... Some snippets: A 7 seems very close to a 9 or 10, but often a 7 is a local maximum — you can’t get any higher by continuing to follow the same path that got you to that 7 in the first place. A 7 is pretty good. At this level you feel generally content. It’s OK, fine, acceptable, satisfactory. What you’ll find when yo…
If Java is 7, then clojure is your 9, and it runs on JVM.
Re: Hate Java? You’re fighting the wrong battle.
#37I'm going to cite Steve Pavlina here: http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/07/how-to-get-from-a-7... Some snippets: A 7 seems very close to a 9 or 10, but often a 7 is a local maximum — you can’t get any higher by continuing to follow the same path that got you to that 7 in the first place. A 7 is pretty good. At this level you feel generally content. It’s OK, fine, acceptable, satisfactory. What you’ll find when yo…
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Re: Hate Java? You’re fighting the wrong battle.
#38The interesting point in this for me was the idea that Java, or any other development platform with an "enterprise" sticker slapped on it, will be the obvious choice for a given problem space simply because it has the sticker. I've been in the situation several times where technology decisions are made based on brand. The Java solution is the only one evaluated "just because".
>>I've been in the situation several times where technology decisions are made based on brand
I've personally seen a scripting language been thrown out and everything rewritten in Java.
After a couple of years they had to go back to scripting languages for a big part, for productivity. So they would ship sometime... (To minimize embarrassment, they used a different scripting language. [Edit: Yes, the second scripting language have almost as much hype as Java...])
Re: Hate Java? You’re fighting the wrong battle.
#39I wonder... how many programmers have been exposed to enough different problem domains and languages to really make an accurate judgement on what is "the best programming language", if any such thing even exists (which I doubt).
Maybe the reason you hate some feature of a language because you've never been exposed to a problem domain where that feature would be required.
I mean how many of us can honestly say that we are experts in more than one or maybe two domains: i.e. web development, desktop/native apps, embedded systems, systems programming, 3d programming, mainframe programming, massive enterprise team projects, small one-person projects, in-between projects, etc...?
I say he who is versed in all of these cast the first stone... :)
Re: Hate Java? You’re fighting the wrong battle.
#40I'm going to cite Steve Pavlina here: http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/07/how-to-get-from-a-7... Some snippets: A 7 seems very close to a 9 or 10, but often a 7 is a local maximum — you can’t get any higher by continuing to follow the same path that got you to that 7 in the first place. A 7 is pretty good. At this level you feel generally content. It’s OK, fine, acceptable, satisfactory. What you’ll find when yo…
... and yet Steve Pavlina was a Windows developer.
Do we have to quote cult leaders on Hacker News?
Steve Pavlina is the guy who writes blog posts about winning blackjack through ESP. His wife is a professional psychic. He sells magic CDs for hundreds of dollars that will give you psychic powers when you listen to them in bed.
There's no credibility to be found here.