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I Miss My Bar

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Re: I Miss My Bar

#351

Post by camgunz »

stolenmerch wrote: post #344
camgunz wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think you might be forgetting medical authorities approving certain protests as being more important than containing covid. Can you provide some examples? I googled around and found this [1] which seems like a reasonable summary of the Covid-related consequences of the George Floyd protests. The "reasons it seems like it was OK" doesn't seem too divergent from what many medical professionals are saying (don't gat…

The point isn't really about institutional racism or police brutality, per se. The virus doesn't know or care about your cause or ideology, it spreads through a crowd regardless. The point is that there might be reasons why violating social distancing and lockdown mandates might be worth it. Protesting police brutality is one reason. Avoiding unemployment and accompanying mental health issues is another. One of these…

Sure and I don't want to minimize the suffering of people affected by COVID-19, either directly or economically. But there really is no comparison with the systemic violence and racism that Americans of color have experienced for 400 years.

Re: I Miss My Bar

#352

Post by michaelt »

_uwiz wrote: post #57
tinus_hn wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same in the Netherlands and any restriction introduced for whatever reason is forever. For instance, when bars had to close at 22:00, people would flood the supermarkets to get booze for drinking at home. So they made a rule that supermarkets can’t sell alcohol after 20:00. Now the bars have been closed for 3 months. Think anyone would remove that now useless limitation on selling alcohol after 20:00? Think again!

UK Government 2020: It seems that most people are catching coronavirus in private homes. makes pubs shit to be in with distancing rules and masks etc people start to socialise at home more It seems that most people are catching coronavirus in private homes. closes pubs earlier people start to socialise at home more It seems that most people are catching coronavirus in private homes. close everything else, make meetin…

> It seems that most people are catching coronavirus in private homes.

It comes as no surprise to me that, if one person in a household gets infected, everyone else would too.

What's the government supposed to do about that? Social distancing on the sofa?

Re: I Miss My Bar

#353

Post by dominotw »

camgunz wrote: post #349
dominotw wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

examples for what? From your cnn link '"Prepare for an increased number of infections in the days following a protest," the letter says. ' > “The right to live, the right to breathe, the right to walk down the street without police coming at you for no reason . . . that’s different than me wanting to go to my place of worship on the weekend, me wanting to take my kid on a roller coaster, me wanting to go to brunch wi…

Sure, my point is that the medical professionals responding to the protests were acknowledging that racism is a public health crisis and that the protests are both deeply relevant to the COVID-19 pandemic, and even more important than containing COVID-19. They also compared those protests to other gatherings like religious services, social events, and anti-mask/lockdown protests and said those gatherings were not as…

anything that's not based on scietific hypothesis is obviously an 'emotional response', how is this even a controversial statement.

Can you point me to the study for public health outcome differences from protests vs going to church. And what what their scietific criteria for where to draw the line was.

Re: I Miss My Bar

#354

Post by kelnos »

stolenmerch wrote: post #344
camgunz wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think you might be forgetting medical authorities approving certain protests as being more important than containing covid. Can you provide some examples? I googled around and found this [1] which seems like a reasonable summary of the Covid-related consequences of the George Floyd protests. The "reasons it seems like it was OK" doesn't seem too divergent from what many medical professionals are saying (don't gat…

The point isn't really about institutional racism or police brutality, per se. The virus doesn't know or care about your cause or ideology, it spreads through a crowd regardless. The point is that there might be reasons why violating social distancing and lockdown mandates might be worth it. Protesting police brutality is one reason. Avoiding unemployment and accompanying mental health issues is another. One of these…

Not sure why the response was surprising: one group was protesting police brutality, and the other was protesting the exact pandemic rules that the CDC (etc.) was pushing. It would be a bit weird for the CDC to say "hey, we need to keep businesses shut down and people should stay inside, but it's cool if you want to go out and protest that requirement, in direct violation of the requirement itself".

And sure, there's a political/optics component. Disapproving of protests against police brutality would have been an incredibly bad look, much worse than disapproving of protests against pandemic safety measures. That shouldn't require any kind of explanation or evoke any surprise.

Re: I Miss My Bar

#355

Post by pragmatic8 »

skocznymroczny wrote: post #260

Until people rise up against the restrictions, the restrictions will continue and will be more restrictive over time. There's always a third, fourth, fifth wave, there's always a new strain immune to current vaccines. Just hold on for two weeks so we can defeat the virus!

Indeed. It truly is mind-boggling that certain governments seem like they want to literally obliterate the virus and drive the number of cases all the way to zero. Heck, why don't they enforce a quarantine until the common cold disappears as well?

Re: I Miss My Bar

#356

Post by stolenmerch »

camgunz wrote: post #351
stolenmerch wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point isn't really about institutional racism or police brutality, per se. The virus doesn't know or care about your cause or ideology, it spreads through a crowd regardless. The point is that there might be reasons why violating social distancing and lockdown mandates might be worth it. Protesting police brutality is one reason. Avoiding unemployment and accompanying mental health issues is another. One of these…

Sure and I don't want to minimize the suffering of people affected by COVID-19, either directly or economically. But there really is no comparison with the systemic violence and racism that Americans of color have experienced for 400 years.

Ok, fair but it's not really a comparison. It's more a question of what is a threshold for acceptable violation of lockdown orders. It doesn't really matter if Reason X is N% worse than Reason Y. The scale of each protest fully explains the scale of the problem.

Re: I Miss My Bar

#357

Post by camgunz »

dominotw wrote: post #353
camgunz wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, my point is that the medical professionals responding to the protests were acknowledging that racism is a public health crisis and that the protests are both deeply relevant to the COVID-19 pandemic, and even more important than containing COVID-19. They also compared those protests to other gatherings like religious services, social events, and anti-mask/lockdown protests and said those gatherings were not as…

anything that's not based on scietific hypothesis is obviously an 'emotional response', how is this even a controversial statement. Can you point me to the study for public health outcome differences from protests vs going to church. And what what their scietific criteria for where to draw the line was.

I don't think we need a scientific study to know that centuries of systemic violence is worse than Zoom church.

Re: I Miss My Bar

#358

Post by kelnos »

rz2k wrote: post #312
mStreamTeam wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "two weeks to flatten the curve" feels like gaslghting in retrospect.

Unless you live in New Zealand you probably haven't ever written down your contact information when entering a store, and probably don't even know what that is. Flattening the curve was really about overloading hospitals. The end game is to make covid-19 extinct in the wild, or domesticated in the sense that only relatively harmless variants remain. Without serious testing and contact tracing that may take a very lon…

We did (still do?) that in San Francisco, but it's incredibly inconsistent. Some restaurants would make a reservation in their reservation system on the spot for you to keep a record of you being there. Others didn't keep track at all.

Meanwhile, we spent last month in Honolulu, and every single restaurant took down our contact info.

Nothing for regular stores in either place, though.

Re: I Miss My Bar

#359

Post by kelnos »

ivan888 wrote: post #287
at_a_remove wrote: post #237

I miss quarterly visits with a friend in a town midway between us. Just us in a hotel room, watching movies, going out to dinner, looking for new places or revisiting the old, chit-chatting away. We still communicate now but it lacks the spontaneity of our usual routine. On a weekly basis, I miss "camping out" at my Starbucks and reading, growing slowly more wired on caffeine. This is the lack that seems to have put…

Just being able to go out into the social world without a plan is something I miss a lot. It feels like every time I leave the house now, I have a very direct objective and I try to accomplish it as quickly as possible with as little human interaction as possible

I hadn't thought about this aspect of it, but that's completely the case for me as well. It's emotionally draining in a way I didn't realize.

Re: I Miss My Bar

#360

Post by camgunz »

stolenmerch wrote: post #356
camgunz wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure and I don't want to minimize the suffering of people affected by COVID-19, either directly or economically. But there really is no comparison with the systemic violence and racism that Americans of color have experienced for 400 years.

Ok, fair but it's not really a comparison. It's more a question of what is a threshold for acceptable violation of lockdown orders. It doesn't really matter if Reason X is N% worse than Reason Y. The scale of each protest fully explains the scale of the problem.

Totally, and I think it's wholly unreasonable to tell someone who's lost their income for months to just chill and stay inside. I think that's the correct advice, but I also think it's not gonna work. I fault our idiotic government for failing to help us when we needed it most. People were right to be infuriated, and I think this shows that when government fails--either to address systemic racism or to provide assistance in a pandemic--everything gets worse.

We shouldn't be faulting protestors or doctors here, we should be faulting our leaders.

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