WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash • Hacker News Board

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#131

Post by sneak » Fri, Feb 19, 2021, 4:01 PM UTC

kevincox wrote: post #126

sneak wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that phone numbers are a small space for brute force, and depending on how much they truncate, this could be very close to uploading one's address book.

Yup. Hashing phone numbers is basically useless. If they truncate enough there might be plausible deniability due to possible collisions but I suspect the chance of collision is still quite low as they don't want to annoy people with false positives.

False positives would be sent to the device for local comparison against full hashes; it wouldn't "annoy people" because it would not trigger a match unless the full hash matched on device.

There is indeed a way to truncate enough to balance the amount of data sent to the device vs privacy.

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#132

Post by bkirkby » Fri, Feb 19, 2021, 4:02 PM UTC

In the stickiness of whatsapp, I caused something of a stir with my family. After the prev announcement and having a general distrust of facebook that had grown over the years, I deleted my Facebook account and made the announcement in the family whatsapp group that I was leaving whatsapp and they could join me on signal if they wished.

I then deleted my whatsapp account.

There was much wailing and grumpiness and some refusals to join me because people didn't want to use a new chat app. I was genuinely surprised that whatsapp had become so sticky for these people and had to mea culpa to smooth things over.

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#133

Post by newswasboring » Fri, Feb 19, 2021, 4:02 PM UTC

egwor wrote: post #14

I'm so disappointed in this. Whatsapp is a functional tool. It was successful since it worked. Facebook has entirely failed to utilise it - to allow external systems to connect in so that businesses can do business on there. The voice calls are also a disaster. They've now come along to start messing with the privacy to start selling ads. It is insane that they're able to make such a mess of this. Is there a word for…

> to allow external systems to connect in so that businesses can do business on there. The voice calls are also a disaster

While I agree with privacy things with you but business on whatsapp doesn't have to require privacy violations. In fact my experience has been good overall. Restaurants have used this as menu replacements, which is the best feature I have seen in a long time. But all they require to do this is give me there number. Facebook had a good feature, they are ruining it because all they know is to make money from advertisement. Its a Pidgeon holed mindset.

Also I don't know what you are talking about in terms of voice calls. I make several voicecalls on whatsapp every day for the past >5 years. Never had a problem with them.

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#134

Post by pmlnr » Fri, Feb 19, 2021, 4:04 PM UTC

dleslie wrote: post #127

pmlnr wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort of. Google Talk, yes, but only the post-2006, federation enabled version, which was XMPP - read http://googletalk.blogspot.com/2006/01/xmpp-federation.html Hangouts - no. It never was as smooth as skype or google talk.

XMPP gtalk was awesome, and killing it was foolish; my _entire_ gtalk contact list suddenly stopped appearing, and that didn't just include people in IT. Dancers, musicians, teachers, et al were using Adium/Pidgin to chat, and suddenly it didn't work. The web chat they provided was incredibly slow on mid and low end PCs, but most of my friends didn't even get as far as trying it. Google talk stopped working in Adium…

Fun fact: xmpp gtalk still works with 3rd party clients.

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#135

Post by meibo » Fri, Feb 19, 2021, 4:07 PM UTC

bkirkby wrote: post #132

In the stickiness of whatsapp, I caused something of a stir with my family. After the prev announcement and having a general distrust of facebook that had grown over the years, I deleted my Facebook account and made the announcement in the family whatsapp group that I was leaving whatsapp and they could join me on signal if they wished. I then deleted my whatsapp account. There was much wailing and grumpiness and som…

I've experienced a lot of the same.

I think the main cause for this is that WhatsApp still just works for most everyone, especially non-technical people - it's still a great product with many features, there's no settings you need to change, it's very reliable, moving to a new phone is literally just entering your phone number and allowing access(no accounts), etc.

Some people followed me to Signal but there really hasn't been a lot of interaction, and a few of them even moved back after the huge downtime it had right when the big news about the new policy broke.

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#136

Post by adam12 » Fri, Feb 19, 2021, 4:07 PM UTC

Is this a sign that Facebook is having revenue issues?

Why would a company risk the negative press and losing users to other apps like Signal if everything was going fine.

Is it possible that the government is strong-arming them?

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#137

Post by 12ian34 » Fri, Feb 19, 2021, 4:08 PM UTC

pmlnr wrote: post #71

egwor wrote: post #14

I'm so disappointed in this. Whatsapp is a functional tool. It was successful since it worked. Facebook has entirely failed to utilise it - to allow external systems to connect in so that businesses can do business on there. The voice calls are also a disaster. They've now come along to start messing with the privacy to start selling ads. It is insane that they're able to make such a mess of this. Is there a word for…

> I'm so disappointed in this. Whatsapp is a functional tool. It was successful since it worked. One decade ago: s/Whatapp/Skype/g s/Facebook/Microsoft/g

well sed

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#138

Post by newswasboring » Fri, Feb 19, 2021, 4:08 PM UTC

tchalla wrote: post #64

nabla9 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FTC sued Facebook for illegal monopolization over this. For some reason, Zuckerberg does not care. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2020/12/ftc-s... >Facebook has engaged in a systematic strategy—including its 2012 acquisition of up-and-coming rival Instagram, its 2014 acquisition of the mobile messaging app WhatsApp, and the imposition of anticompetitive conditions on software developers—to eliminate t…

> When FB bought WhatsApp and Instagram they made explicit promises to regulators not to do this in order to get permission Do you have copy of those legal binding promises?

Even if its not legally binding, even if they have said something like this in press it would be interesting to know. I cannot find anything though.

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#139

Post by lotsofpulp » Fri, Feb 19, 2021, 4:14 PM UTC

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #101

pmlnr wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm so disappointed in this. Whatsapp is a functional tool. It was successful since it worked. One decade ago: s/Whatapp/Skype/g s/Facebook/Microsoft/g

The niche that Whatsapp filled and which brought it to massive adoption was not the same as Skype's. In South America (and Asia, too, if I understand correctly), Whatsapp was a way to avoid SMS charges on your mobile phone. Because now it is the only way many acquaintances and businesses can be contacted, it will remain entrenched even with this hostile new privacy policy. Skype, on the other hand, was about audio- o…

> In South America (and Asia, too, if I understand correctly), Whatsapp was a way to avoid SMS charges on your mobile phone.

It was the same in the US, especially for avoiding costly international SMS/MMS charges. It basically allowed me to communicate with international family and friends, since they might not have been as technically inclined to deal with logins and spam on apps like Skype.

In addition, at that time, WhatsApp was the best way to share contacts. It’s still one of the best ways, I think, since you don’t have to worry if the other person is iOS or Android.

Re: WhatsApp to move ahead with privacy update despite backlash

#140

Post by deanCommie » Fri, Feb 19, 2021, 4:14 PM UTC

bkirkby wrote: post #132

In the stickiness of whatsapp, I caused something of a stir with my family. After the prev announcement and having a general distrust of facebook that had grown over the years, I deleted my Facebook account and made the announcement in the family whatsapp group that I was leaving whatsapp and they could join me on signal if they wished. I then deleted my whatsapp account. There was much wailing and grumpiness and som…

Honestly, it "just works".

It's fast, it's simple. Its UX is "flagship" (unlike, sorry, Signal - who I'm giving a chance, but the UX is unquestionably more "open source *nix product"-adjacent)

A few years back I got tired that my friends were sprawled across many different platforms, and I tried a bunch of different clients and found Whatsapp the most attractive. I made a pitch to the ones who weren't already on there to move over. And it stuck, even for my own parents.