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Don’t format a drive of M1 Macs from recovery mode

giuliomagnifico.medium.com

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Re: Don’t format a drive of M1 Macs from recovery mode

#131

Post by m1mac »

liminalsunset wrote: post #127
PurpleFoxy wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was kind of shocked at how hard it is to factory reset a MacBook. I had one at work and I had to pass it on and the guide is a multi step process which I messed up the first time and ended up reinstalling with my user account still there. Had to start again which takes hours. Why does the recovery not just have a button called factory reset which unlinks your apple account, deletes the volume and then sets it all u…

There actually is a way to do this easily, and it only seems to work if you have FileVault enabled. Boot into recovery, when it asks for a password say youve forgotten it, you don't have a key, and click the resulting "Erase Mac" button. This will erase the drive properly removing the partitions, iirc.

Yeah, that's the right way to do it. You can do it without FileVault enabled, too. Enter `resetpassword` in Terminal, and the Erase Mac option is in the menu bar.

I'll grant that this is poorly documented and not intuitive in the least. A secure erase and reinstall is a common task. It shouldn't require an obscure menu bar option or the use of Terminal.

Re: Don’t format a drive of M1 Macs from recovery mode

#132

Post by southerntofu »

simonh wrote: post #113
southerntofu wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with using stolen hardware? I mean we could argue stealing is wrong, in which case we'd have to take a look at why people are stealing and from whom (partitioning of wealth) so we can find solutions. If we're not looking at the root of the problem, then we're just complicating legitimate use cases. Preventing theft is only the official argument, but it doesn't stand any form of scrutiny: as long as there…

Most victims of crime are also socially disadvantaged, so enough with the Robin Hood crap. Theft is also strongly associated with violence, intimidation and mental stress on the victims. Promoting or justifying crimes in your comments here is reckless and irresponsible. If someone wants to sell a device second hand it's pretty easy to voluntarily wipe your device. Apple devices have very long lives, receive software…

> Most victims of crime are also socially disadvantaged

True in most cases, but not when it comes to owning a recent iPhone. Millions of people struggle for eating decently, and most of these folks are certainly not spending >500€ on a phone.

What may not have been clear in my original comment is most users who have a stolen device don't have knowledge of it, and are not complicit in it. So why do they have to be the ones paying the price?

> If someone wants to sell a device second hand it's pretty easy to voluntarily wipe your device.

In my experience, it's not uncommon that neighbors seek support because a relative offered them their old phone willingly but are far away and unable to remember their password over the phone. Sometimes, it's a phone/account they had not used in years. I've encountered this situation at least twice in the past year, and i'm not even working in a computer/phone shop.

> Fairphone, but since they get only 2 years of updates I think Greenpeace doesn't sufficiently take into account device longevity

Fairphone only supports updates for 2 years, but there's a growing ecosystems of distros targeting the Fairphones (LineageOS, /e/, PostmarketOS), while Apple have been condemned for pushing updates that made iPhones slower (to encourage them buying new ones).

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724

Re: Don’t format a drive of M1 Macs from recovery mode

#133

Post by southerntofu »

jaywalk wrote: post #93
southerntofu wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why downvote? Please argue with facts. Although i understand defending vendor lock-in, ecological damage, and forced sales is a hard sell... All the more when trying to protect from criticism a corporation making billions on the backs of exploited children in mines & factories.

Your arguments are 100% nonsense and 0% facts, so most people will see it as a waste of time to try and have a discussion with you.

> The truth behind iCloud lock is Apple has been involved in mafia-style dealings with national mobile phone operators (which involved promises/contracts to sell millions of units), inundating the market with operator-sponsored iPhones, and they really don't want a second-hand market at all because they are a luxury brand.

Apple investigated for "planned" obsolescence by the French government: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42615378 (they have also settled for 500M$ in a previous case)

Apple was condemned and fined for illegal clauses in France in contracts with national cellphone operators (i believe the 4 of them):

https://www.universfreebox.com/article/34513/Apple-accuse-d-...

Specifically, they were condemned for:

- forcing the operator to buy a minimum amount of devices over 3 years - preventing the operator from defining target prices - forcing the operator to give funds to a marketing agency affiliated to Apple - forcing the operator to finance the marketing of iPhones in store, mandating a minimal marketing budget - enabling Apple to use the trademarks of the operator, but not the other way around - imposes strict conditions for device orders, but lifts any responsibility on Apple's side - forces the operator to financially support device repairs - gives Apple the right to break said contract, without respecting legal delays - enables Apple to use patents from the operator

Some of this was covered on public television by "Cash Investigation", so that was quite a public outcry. But this is only for France, and i'm assuming such mafia-like practices are common in other countries, as they are common in different branches of industry (not just IT, where well-known example include Microsoft and Intel).

About the consequences for the environment and (lack of) recycling of electronic waste:

https://www.cnet.com/news/the-environmental-pitfalls-at-the-... https://techhq.com/2020/12/right-to-repair-combating-techs-d... https://www.vox.com/2017/11/8/16621512/where-does-my-smartph...

About Apple not wanting a second hand market, i obviously meant a second hand market they do not control. They do have certified programs for second hard hardware. Sorry if that was not clear.

I hope i've provided enough evidence of the facts i was presenting. Please let me know if that's not the case.

Re: Don’t format a drive of M1 Macs from recovery mode

#134

Post by southerntofu »

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #110
southerntofu wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why, though? Physical access to the hardware should prevent you from accessing existing files (encryption at rest) but should not prevent you from resetting/reusing the device. Does your fridge come with FridgeID? Or a book? Introducing such mechanisms is really hostile to users, especially poorer users of second-hand hardware who have to go through extra (shady) hoops to get a device running just because some rich S…

I think the argument that locking down hardware is unfair to thieves is not likely to garner a lot of support. But the larger argument that it's unfair to users should. The majority of whom didn't know they were signing up for a machine that is so theft-proof they can't give it to a grandparent or donate it to a school. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that easily-bricked hardware leads to more sales for Apple…

> I think the argument that locking down hardware is unfair to thieves

That was not my point. Most times, users of a stolen device are unaware and not complicit in the fact it was stolen in the first place. They usually have acquired it from legitimate second-hand markets.

Re: Don’t format a drive of M1 Macs from recovery mode

#135

Post by Toutouxc »

southerntofu wrote: post #132
simonh wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most victims of crime are also socially disadvantaged, so enough with the Robin Hood crap. Theft is also strongly associated with violence, intimidation and mental stress on the victims. Promoting or justifying crimes in your comments here is reckless and irresponsible. If someone wants to sell a device second hand it's pretty easy to voluntarily wipe your device. Apple devices have very long lives, receive software…

> Most victims of crime are also socially disadvantaged True in most cases, but not when it comes to owning a recent iPhone. Millions of people struggle for eating decently, and most of these folks are certainly not spending >500€ on a phone. What may not have been clear in my original comment is most users who have a stolen device don't have knowledge of it, and are not complicit in it. So why do they have to be the…

> So why do they have to be the ones paying the price?

What price?

The original price of the device? Because we all do.

Or the price of having to buy a different machine than the $200 MacBook from the shady person online which came without the original box, warranty or charger? For the same reason, and also because they're stupid.

Re: Don’t format a drive of M1 Macs from recovery mode

#136

Post by southerntofu »

kstrauser wrote: post #130
crististm wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of it as a 'fuck you' to the thief and whoever might get the brick. Maybe you get that, otherwise you can be bitter all you want about the inequality and how stealing will resolve that.

More practically, I want to remove the financial incentive from stealing my phone. I want a thief to see it and think "why bother, I can't get anything for it".

From what i can see, it does not seem to work. Here in western Europe in the big cities many people buy locked phones second hand and the vendor explicitly says you have to get it unlocked, which is a service provided by many phone shops (somewhat under the table).

These locked iPhones sold for 50-200€ are acquired by users who will turn to their tech friends/neighbors to get it unlocked. When these tell them they can't help with that (no package in Debian for that yet), they end up spending 20-50€ in a shop to get it unlocked anyway, financing a very shady market.

Previous discussion on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19845934

Quote from the article that sparked the discussion:

> To do this, they phish the phone’s original owners, or scam employees at Apple Stores, which have the ability to override iCloud locks. Thieves, coders, and hackers participate in an underground industry designed to remove a user’s iCloud account from a phone so that they can then be resold.

At the end of the day, if the thief doesn't get the phone unlocked themselves, they will sell the phone for half (or less) the price they would have sold it unlocked, but they're still making a buck.

Re: Don’t format a drive of M1 Macs from recovery mode

#137

Post by ulzeraj »

marcan_42 wrote: post #57
SXX wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't wipe actual physical volume on M1 without some command line magic and even then I not sure it's gonna work. Recovery disk utility say it's will wipe it, but it do nothing and Erase Mac option is the same: all it do is erase user data. I got stuck with almost the same issue even though I'm system administrator and programmer with decade of experience. I can't imagine how all this mess should feel for average…

You absolutely can wipe the main APFS container on M1, from 1TR mode (the recovery menu that you get by holding down power). That will wipe the OS along with user data. Unless you have something broken in system firmware at that point, it's a clean start. This works from the GUI Disk Utility too, usually, though that tool is flaky sometimes. It definitely works from the command line.

The thing it doesn't look like we are actually erasing the device but a volume group inside it. I say that because there seems to be a protected partition that contains the OS installer. I could be wrong tho but I've reinstalled at least 2 systems like that.

Re: Don’t format a drive of M1 Macs from recovery mode

#138

Post by southerntofu »

crististm wrote: post #100
southerntofu wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why, though? Physical access to the hardware should prevent you from accessing existing files (encryption at rest) but should not prevent you from resetting/reusing the device. Does your fridge come with FridgeID? Or a book? Introducing such mechanisms is really hostile to users, especially poorer users of second-hand hardware who have to go through extra (shady) hoops to get a device running just because some rich S…

Yes. In a PC ecosystem this is true - physical access renders the machine in your control (modulo Intel Management System and other backdoor schemes). For Apple, there is a different set of axioms and some people seem to agree with them.

> For Apple, there is a different set of axioms and some people seem to agree with them.

I don't think this is true for all Apple products though, or at least that was not the case in the past. To my knowledge, setting up a free OS on a second-hand Macbook has never been a problem.

However, you are correct Apple is trying to impose new axioms with the iPhones: unique app market (taking controversial posture, such as forbidding alternative browser engines), iCloud lock, non-interoperable hardware (eg. power socket)...

Re: Don’t format a drive of M1 Macs from recovery mode

#139

Post by pornel »

I also have lots of issues with reinstalling broken Big Sur. The installer apparently needs to phone home to Apple to get permission to reinstall the OS, and this fails. When this doesn't fail, it doesn't get permission to write to nvram, so the OS reverts itself to previous version after reboot.

I like Macs having iPad-like performance, but I don't like the boot process is so locked down that it reminds me this computer belongs to Apple, not me.

Re: Don’t format a drive of M1 Macs from recovery mode

#140

Post by southerntofu »

Toutouxc wrote: post #135
southerntofu wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most victims of crime are also socially disadvantaged True in most cases, but not when it comes to owning a recent iPhone. Millions of people struggle for eating decently, and most of these folks are certainly not spending >500€ on a phone. What may not have been clear in my original comment is most users who have a stolen device don't have knowledge of it, and are not complicit in it. So why do they have to be the…

> So why do they have to be the ones paying the price? What price? The original price of the device? Because we all do. Or the price of having to buy a different machine than the $200 MacBook from the shady person online which came without the original box, warranty or charger? For the same reason, and also because they're stupid.

> What price?

The price of having to pay a shady black market of "icloud unlocker" (usually through legit phone stores) to unlock of phone they have already paid for in good faith.

> the $200 MacBook from the shady person online

It's not just an online thing, and the person doesn't have to be shady (they're usually just a middleperson who have little clue). You can find questionable hardware in most open markets and second-hand shops.

> without the original box, warranty or charger?

Most second-hand hardware i purchase from legit sources comes with at least two of those missing (when not three) out of three.

> also because they're stupid.

I agree it's stupid to purchase a device you have no idea how to access/use/unlock. But i strongly disagree that good-faith people, who genuinely paid for an Apple device (after being advertised into thinking they need one), should suffer because of a lack of judgement on their part.

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