Earlier quoted context omitted.
Report it for what, having an opinion you don't like?
For saying it’s okay for pedofiles to be recognized for their other work There is disagreement on opinions and there is outright immorality.
'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'
591–600 of 643 posts
Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'
#592Earlier quoted context omitted.
You bet! Now, if you'll allow me to try to present the other side for your consideration: - Virtue signaling is a critical component to personal and social moral growth. Showing where you stand and putting your money where you mouth is necessary to decentralize authority and improve the standards that are "baked" into society. Otherwise you're just appealing to whoever has the biggest stick. - That people misapply a…
> - Virtue signaling is a critical component to personal and social moral growth. Showing where you stand and putting your money where you mouth is necessary to decentralize authority and improve the standards that are "baked" into society. Otherwise you're just appealing to whoever has the biggest stick. I was under the impression the virtue signalling specifically requires insincerity. For example, if you inject yo…
I think there are lot of loaded words in our political vocabulary and their meaning can have subtle (or even significant) shifts based on who uses them. If "virtue signaling" includes a connotation of insincerity, and that aspect changes everything entirely as you show.
I used it in a more strictly technical sense, but I think it fair to say that with most language the neutral, technical version is the least common in actual usage.
Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'
#593Earlier quoted context omitted.
-- it is selectively enforced depending on what side someone is on -- especially with regards to forgiveness of something which happened some time ago. -- Context is irrelevant. People are being canceled for using the wrong word when enumerating words which cannot be said. again, some people can say them, some can't. -- it is completely out of proportion to things which do actual damage. This really bothers me. Someo…
I've seen people get upset about authors from demographic group X writing about people from demographic group Y. Apparently, that is a prerogative of only group Y nowadays.
But what seems problematic for me is when institutions react to random outrage groups (which often are very vocal but small groups) on social media by blindly joining in the outrage and rapidly severing ties with people (firing them, removing authors, etc) without a serious investigation of what - if any - actual wrongdoing there was, what were the circumstances, etc. I would expect some semblance of due process instead of "just" doing what the crowd says immediately for PR reasons.
Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'
#594Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, there isn't. What is and isn't immoral is subjective, hence open to opinion. The best basis for "outright immoral" is universal agreement - I don't know that there is on this topic. Recognition of a work isn't the same as praise of the individual - good work can come from bad people. And in the case of a work like a film, there are multiple stakeholders. I'd also like to note that "paedophile" in this case is pro…
The quote is as follows: Yes, pedophile are other things than pedophiles. If they happen to be good at those things, which dont happen to be pedophilia - there is no reason why we should deny them recognition for taking humanity two steps forward, one step back. At least from my understanding, society takes a hard line on pedophilia so this is universal agreement on its immorality.
Its not obvious what a "hard line" on sexual abuse is, or how you think society behaves on the matter; it doesn't obviously include denying recognition of works.
Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'
#595Sex is currency in music industry. Music is currency in drug industry. Drugs are currency in sex industry. The three really do go well together.
Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'
#596Earlier quoted context omitted.
-- it is selectively enforced depending on what side someone is on -- especially with regards to forgiveness of something which happened some time ago. -- Context is irrelevant. People are being canceled for using the wrong word when enumerating words which cannot be said. again, some people can say them, some can't. -- it is completely out of proportion to things which do actual damage. This really bothers me. Someo…
I've seen people get upset about authors from demographic group X writing about people from demographic group Y. Apparently, that is a prerogative of only group Y nowadays.
Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'
#597Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think talent should be rewarded, doubly so if the person is a villain Why doubly so, it is literally rewarding the bad behavior? A person that does not abuse people should be rewarded as much as those who do abuse them. And it seem to me that current culture or at least culture last twenty years was rewarding abusers more then non-abusers or their victims. And it just leads to more abuse.
I am not saying that we should double the reward for villains, but that it is twice as important. Everyone should be rewarded the same way, otherwise, sure, it rewards bad behavior and we don't want that, we don't want to excuse the bad behavior either. But you rise an interesting point about victims. A criminal shall pay damage to the victims, and a successful author can do it. A worthless thug or someone perceived…
Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'
#598Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, there isn't. What is and isn't immoral is subjective, hence open to opinion. The best basis for "outright immoral" is universal agreement - I don't know that there is on this topic. Recognition of a work isn't the same as praise of the individual - good work can come from bad people. And in the case of a work like a film, there are multiple stakeholders. I'd also like to note that "paedophile" in this case is pro…
The quote is as follows: Yes, pedophile are other things than pedophiles. If they happen to be good at those things, which dont happen to be pedophilia - there is no reason why we should deny them recognition for taking humanity two steps forward, one step back. At least from my understanding, society takes a hard line on pedophilia so this is universal agreement on its immorality.
Like whether a persons genius has something to do with the bad deeds or the worst part of themselves has something to do with their genius.
There is an excellent essay by Heinrich Oppenhiemer called The Rationale of Punishment [0] It's quite the thought provoking read despite being over a century old. People then struggled with the question of justice - what is fair - just as we do today.
The idea of fairness, to mete out punishment and dole out reward with equal measure, should be the foundation of justice. Yes, we should lock the molester in a dark cell for life for his crime, but justice demands that if he has done good works - those be recognised with the exactude of their contribution, not with spite.
Some old Chinese texts on Mohism should also be an entertaining read - with good leaders both in government and military said to have mastered fairness in reward and punishment [1]
So I'm hoping at the least you can see nothing is so black and white when it comes to the justice of reward and punishment. The idea of being just is seen as virtuous throughout the ages across all cultures from the Zulu to the Muari to the Aztecs to the Sycithians to ancient Egyptians to Han China - because it hard.
[0](https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/intejethi....)
Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'
#599Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the girl in question has (later, when she grew up) expressed that she does not wish that Polanski be prosecuted or further punished by the industry. I think Samantha Geimer has been doubly victimised – first by Polanski, then by a legal system which cares more about itself than about the interests and wishes of the victims it is supposed to protect. I think Geimer feels, that as Polanski's victim, she should have s…
The problem is we can't yet map a person's neurons well enough to know their motivations as to why they don't want to see the other person punished. Is it a genuine desire to forgive? Or is it out of fear/undesire to relive the experience? I honestly don't know and it's not my place to guess, but it's a problem that we see in other areas too. This line of reasoning is part of why DV cases move forward even if the vic…
We don't need to "map" Samantha Geimer's neurons to understand her motivations. We can listen to what she has to say herself about that topic, in her media interviews, in the book she wrote, on Twitter. Have you listened to what she has to say? Or are you saying that it doesn't matter what she says? Isn't that denying her a voice, and denying her agency? And, isn't denying her agency what Polanski did to her to begin with?
> This line of reasoning is part of why DV cases move forward even if the victim doesn't want to.
In many cases of domestic violence, the victim may still be under psychological domination by the abuser, and I agree in those circumstances there may be times when it is right to overrule the victim's wish that their abuser goes unprosecuted.
But in this case, Geimer and Polanski haven't see each other in person in over 40 years. She has had her own life – she married, had kids, a career. She explains her desire that the case be dropped as about what's good for her – escaping the continuing retraumatisation by the legal system and the media. I really don't see any evidence here that she is presently (or even recently) being psychologically dominated by Polanski.
If Geimer, as a thirteen year old, was arguing that Polanski shouldn't be prosecuted, I think it would be legitimate to overrule that wish. But, when she's arguing that as a fifty-seven year old, I don't think overruling her wishes is still legitimate. And, take note, her problem was not with the original prosecution in itself – she was happy with the original outcome that Polanski pled guilty and she didn't have to testify. Her objection is to the case being dragged on for decades against her will.
She's also angry about the judicial misconduct in the case – which, who cares about whether it hurt Polanski, it harmed her (the judge's unprofessionalism betrayed the victim); and by people who want to use the events of her life for political and media ends – it's her trauma not theirs, yet people want to use her trauma for their own ends without consulting her.
I get the impression a lot of people don't care about the actual detailed facts of this case, they just want to cling to the principle, and if Geimer's welfare and agency have to be sacrificed for their principle, so be it.