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New Model M Is an American-Made Keyboard That Puts a Spring Back in Your Typing

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Re: New Model M Is an American-Made Keyboard That Puts a Spring Back in Your Typing

#71

The IBM Model M hype is absurdly overblown. Anyone who has used decent mechanical keyboards should be able to pretty much immediately notice just how cost-reduced that keyboard is. It is quite literally the cheapest buckling spring keyboard IBM managed to make in '89, and it shows. Cherry boards are often bashed for their flexing and wobbly cases, but the IBM Model M is hardly better with the top and lower parts of t…

Never had an issue with loosely fitting parts, spills or breaking rivets, and I had mine for 20 years, after it had been in an office for 10, and now it's gone on to a new delighted owner (I'm using a smaller board now).

Not seeing the longevity issues there really, and the springs have a lovely feel.

(The F77 from your link looks great, but that pricetag!)

Re: New Model M Is an American-Made Keyboard That Puts a Spring Back in Your Typing

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of the hype around mechanical keyboards in general is overblown. I had a period of transitioning to mechanical keyboards. I couldn't get used to the high-rise keys and long travel times which made my wrists hurt and made typing a chore. I kept convincing myself that I just had the wrong type of switch, so I changed keyboards every few months seeking that perfect feeling. The closest I got was low-profil…

I could never get used to mechanical keyboards either, so I've been using a Logitech UltraX Premium for ages[1] now, a laptop-style scissor-switch design that rivals my Thinkpad X220 for typing feel. Honestly, I have no idea what will replace it when/if it finally gives up the ghost. [1] I bought it back when USB keyboards were the hot new thing to have, back in the stone age.

Best keyboard I ever used is my current Thinkpad x220. I would need something with a better CPU tough

Re: New Model M Is an American-Made Keyboard That Puts a Spring Back in Your Typing

#74
Having built my own ErgoDox and used several Cherry styles, played with Model M, used chicklets, and cheap rubber domes, I can honestly say I wouldn't go back from good quality, electrocapacitive rubber domes. I couldn't tell enough of a difference between Topre switches and the ones on the cheaper NIZ plum board I bought a few years back (and will probably only replace when I have to).

Re: New Model M Is an American-Made Keyboard That Puts a Spring Back in Your Typing

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I'm not alone. I really can't understand the appeal of a mechanical keyboard. - They are loud - They are expensive - The keys are massive and ugly - Massive travel time (So slow to type on) Sure they are a bit more customizable, but is that really worth all the drawbacks? Especially the worse typing, which is the main point of a keyboard. If you are a mechanical keyboard fanatic, and my comment angered you, please…

I probably don't speak for everybody, but I can try to speak to your points above: - They are loud They can be loud, depending on the switches you get. However, some people feel that they benefit from it. The loud clicks are satisfying in some way. Maybe it's an ASMR thing for some people. For me, the sound feels like feedback. - They are expensive They can be. But so can regular keyboards. My first mechanical was li…

> They can be loud, depending on the switches you get.

It’s worth noting that for folks who don’t know proper typing technique (which is probably nearly everybody under the age of 40, as nobody really teaches it any more, at least in the countries where I’ve lived) it almost doesn’t matter what sort of mechanical switch you’re using, in terms of noise.

In my experience, the majority of mechanical keyboard noise for most folks doesn’t actually come from the switches at all; it comes from the keys noisily bottoming out on each keystroke.

My theory is that most folks these days learned to type on membrane keyboards where you have to bottom out the keys (often with quite a lot of force, if the keyboard is old), or else on a laptop’s scissor switches where you can’t avoid bottoming out due to the extremely short throw, and so everyone’s just typing with much more force than necessary and driving the keys all the way down to the backplate on every press because that’s what they had to do with the keyboards they learned on.

Which of course makes typing far less pleasant, and also much noisier! The complaints are totally understandable, from that perspective.

This also links into the “Massive travel time” comment; most folks push the keys much too far down while typing on mechanical keyboards!

Cherry MX Blue switches (as one example) actuate at 2mm, which is almost exactly the same distance as most (non-Apple) laptop scissor switches. The only reason that a mechanical keyboard would have “massive travel time” compared to a laptop keyboard is if you’re needlessly pushing the keys all the way down, when you actually only need a gentle tap on them.

Re: New Model M Is an American-Made Keyboard That Puts a Spring Back in Your Typing

#76
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that Das Keyboard switch quality was ruined with version 3, when they done away with variable actuating strength. I was sad when my version 2 died.

I've used my Das Keyboards 2, 3 and 4 quite a lot. Maybe I'm not picky enough, but I never noticed anything different in switch quality. "Ruined" is way overblown imho. Typing from my DK4 which I really love.

Bad choice of words, sorry. What I mean is that they have removed what was making them different from most other mechanical keyboards out there.

Re: New Model M Is an American-Made Keyboard That Puts a Spring Back in Your Typing

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I'm not alone. I really can't understand the appeal of a mechanical keyboard. - They are loud - They are expensive - The keys are massive and ugly - Massive travel time (So slow to type on) Sure they are a bit more customizable, but is that really worth all the drawbacks? Especially the worse typing, which is the main point of a keyboard. If you are a mechanical keyboard fanatic, and my comment angered you, please…

I probably don't speak for everybody, but I can try to speak to your points above: - They are loud They can be loud, depending on the switches you get. However, some people feel that they benefit from it. The loud clicks are satisfying in some way. Maybe it's an ASMR thing for some people. For me, the sound feels like feedback. - They are expensive They can be. But so can regular keyboards. My first mechanical was li…

I did not know you could get low profile keys. That's interesting and I'll look into that. Why aren't they the default though?

But even with everything you say, I still don't see the point. You'd have to find specific switches and keys (which will probably be more difficult to find and more expensive) just to end up with something that roughly matches a rubber dome keyboard.

And yeah, I admit they look cooler overall. And they have a more "hacker" vibe to them which I can appreciate. But again I still can't think why I'd spend all that extra money/effort on something that struggles to match a normal keyboard for typing.

And yeah, when I'm coding I hardly type, I spend most of the time thinking. But I still do a lot of typing in general. Writing online comments, group IM chats, searching stuff on the internet, typing commands into a terminal. And whenever I've tried any of that on a mechanical keyboard, it just feels like my typing speed is unnecessarily slowed down. I get irritated by the latency in the same way I get irritated waiting for a website to load all it's useless extra js scripts that will have no effect on the bit of text I want to read.

Re: New Model M Is an American-Made Keyboard That Puts a Spring Back in Your Typing

#78

The IBM Model M hype is absurdly overblown. Anyone who has used decent mechanical keyboards should be able to pretty much immediately notice just how cost-reduced that keyboard is. It is quite literally the cheapest buckling spring keyboard IBM managed to make in '89, and it shows. Cherry boards are often bashed for their flexing and wobbly cases, but the IBM Model M is hardly better with the top and lower parts of t…

I think a lot of the hype around mechanical keyboards in general is overblown. I had a period of transitioning to mechanical keyboards. I couldn't get used to the high-rise keys and long travel times which made my wrists hurt and made typing a chore. I kept convincing myself that I just had the wrong type of switch, so I changed keyboards every few months seeking that perfect feeling. The closest I got was low-profil…

Anecdote: I switched from my old ergonomic Microsoft mechanical keyboard to the Varmilo VA87M[0]. It's not ergonomic, but man, is this a great keyboard. My problem with ergonomic keyboards is how wide they are. I have to move my had too far to get to the mouse. This little keyboard, with a good palm rest, has been fantastic. The travel distance isn't anywhere near what it was on my old mechanical Microsoft keyboard, so that's much improved with more modern keyboards. Anyway, I was very skeptical of the Varmilo, since it's not ergonomic, but it's been excellent, and my wrist pain has gone away.

[0] https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_lis...

Re: New Model M Is an American-Made Keyboard That Puts a Spring Back in Your Typing

#79

The IBM Model M hype is absurdly overblown. Anyone who has used decent mechanical keyboards should be able to pretty much immediately notice just how cost-reduced that keyboard is. It is quite literally the cheapest buckling spring keyboard IBM managed to make in '89, and it shows. Cherry boards are often bashed for their flexing and wobbly cases, but the IBM Model M is hardly better with the top and lower parts of t…

I think a lot of the hype around mechanical keyboards in general is overblown. I had a period of transitioning to mechanical keyboards. I couldn't get used to the high-rise keys and long travel times which made my wrists hurt and made typing a chore. I kept convincing myself that I just had the wrong type of switch, so I changed keyboards every few months seeking that perfect feeling. The closest I got was low-profil…

I discovered in a group project once that a Model M can support a cockatiel walking on it without pressing a key. This was a timesaver.

Re: New Model M Is an American-Made Keyboard That Puts a Spring Back in Your Typing

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I'm not alone. I really can't understand the appeal of a mechanical keyboard. - They are loud - They are expensive - The keys are massive and ugly - Massive travel time (So slow to type on) Sure they are a bit more customizable, but is that really worth all the drawbacks? Especially the worse typing, which is the main point of a keyboard. If you are a mechanical keyboard fanatic, and my comment angered you, please…

I find mechanical keyboards much nicer to type on - the keys have enough force to actively push back into position, which gives a great pressed/not-pressed response. This definitely helps when typing quickly. The key travel distance should be about the same as a membrane keyboard - activation happens at the midpoint, not the terminal point, so if you're using the full travel distance you're typing too hard.

> the keys have enough force to actively push back into position, which gives a great pressed/not-pressed response.

I'm not sure I understand this. How does a rubber dome keyboard not do this?

> The key travel distance should be about the same as a membrane keyboard

I must disagree. I've tested them side by side, and all the mechanical keyboards activate at at least twice the distance. (I've tried like 5 different ones, so not exhaustive, but still)

> activation happens at the midpoint, not the terminal point

I do know this, but it also irritates me. Why not just stop at the activation point? That should give you better feedback than trying to find the activation point somewhere in the middle.

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