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Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

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Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#811

Post by Nimitz14 »

pb7 wrote: post #689
Nimitz14 wrote: post #684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're clearly not very intelligent if you can't conceive of people having a different attitude towards life than yours. Basically every big shot entrepreneur ever had opportunity to work at their equivalent of Google, and yet they didn't.

Entrepreneurs set their own hours based on their desired lifestyle, are their own bosses, and have the majority stake in their work. They are not at the mercy of anyone but themselves. I would say that falls under "employment that provides an environment for a healthy balanced life".

You couldn't be more wrong.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#812

Post by secondcoming »

shadowgovt wrote: post #237
secondcoming wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I swanned off to do yoga during my contracted core hours I'd be sacked

In this case, the company is offering the yoga as something you can do during your work hours. Google doesn't really have "contracted core hours" precisely. They have quarterly goals. If you're accomplishing those goals, the corporate culture doesn't much care how. This offers flexibility that can make it easier to accomplish tasks (I knew people who worked 6AM-2PM because the center-of-mass of their team was in a di…

Fair enough. But I'd assume that there's an implicit understanding in that agreement that if you're needed for something work-related you probably shouldn't go to yoga, i.e. they assume you'll be an adult about it.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#813

Post by sergiosgc »

jodrellblank wrote: post #797
sergiosgc wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me give you the perspective from the other side of the trench: I never ask my employees for overtime, never control their work hours. The typical work week that organically arises out of this is about 35 hours. I would absolutely fire anyone who would close the laptop for the weekend and left a critical operation pending on Friday. It's about work ethics and personal responsibility of the outcome of personal work…

You don't see any doublethink in never asking for overtime, never controlling their work hours, and firing them if they don't work the overtime hours you want at the time you want?

No I don't. I don't hire hours. I hire people. I don't even hire people who put in hours. I hire people who produce work. If the work they produce is ok, I'm fine. If the work they produce is poor, I have a problem. In the example I gave, leaving a critical operation pending a whole weekend is poor workmanship (schedules and work hours are totally irrelevant in that assertion).

There's a second level to this, which is the definition of an acceptable workload. That is company-cultural, and you'll have to take my word for it when I say it is acceptable. We have the position that in the long run it's best that people feel happy on the job, which requires workloads compatible with life outside the company.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#815

Post by second--shift »

chad_strategic wrote: post #610
second--shift wrote: post #585

One question i have about working at Google - a bit embarrassing to ask, but does one's Google account/search history come into play during the application/interview process? I'd rather not be grilled about why I was Googling how to hack Wi-Fi passwords in 2012.

Wow! That's the worst you were googling? You make me look like a saint. :)

This is one of the more presentable of the questionable topics ;)

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#816

Post by nmfisher »

_carbyau_ wrote: post #782
rapsey wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about that. Was MS ever not filthy profitable? They are very successful with azure, was that started by balmer or nadella? People here give MS too little credit. Their reach is MASSIVE. No american company has the world wide reach that MS has. Practically every enterprise in the world is their customer.

Agreed. I find it interesting that Apple has money, hardware, OS, many apps, web presence. And now ARM CPU knowhow. Why aren't they forcibly pushing into Corporate? Sure, they'd have to develop corporate fleet management stuff but at this stage they could buy a few companies and be 80% of the way there. Or build it right from the start for only a handful of their hundreds of billions. How many iphone toting CTOs in y…

Because Apple is fundamentally a consumer company. The marketing and branding that are huge drivers of their success just won’t work as well in the enterprise.

Enterprise means people in suits doing sales calls. It’s a patient, one-on-one, handholding process, and it’s just not in Apple’s DNA.

Far better for them to come up with some new consumer widget that also leverages their strength in supply chain. That’s what they’re good at, and it’s extraordinarily profitable.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#817

Post by guytv »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #558
guytv wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israeli here. cultural gaps are very much alive and kicking During my career I've worked with people around the world, all in the Tech industry. Israeli-Californian cultural gap is huge. It is made worse by the fact that Israelis usually have a good English level, some even have an okay accent - which makes their US counterpart expect them to use the same communication etiquette they are used to. Californians will go…

This is interesting to me, because you hear the same thing when discussing Japanese vs American culture, with the Americans being the more direct ones in that comparison. I wonder what happens when Israelis work with Japanese people.

That would be interesting to see, indeed.

Never got a chance to work with Japanese.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#818

Post by gonehome »

jariel wrote: post #743
gonehome wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably the stock price is a prediction of future success, not current revenue. The fact that it sagged under Ballmer and is now up under Nadella aligns with how I'm framing things. I suppose you could argue that's entirely PR, but I don't think that's the case. People thought MSFT under Ballmer was trending down, now they think it's trending up. I'd argue that's due to strategic shifts that happened once Ballmer le…

That's a good point but it wasn't really 'Ballmer' - it was the existential changes in the industry. I believe if Ballmer had of hung on for a few more years, that change would have happened eventually. Investors eventually would realize 'This is not just Windows and Office'.

I think this is our core disagreement distilled down.

I think Ballmer couldn’t have done it, he was too tied up personally in windows.

Some of the examples you mention under Ballmer are more examples of strategic failure under his watch. Xbox is the easiest example, the Xbox One’s launch was awful and focus on cable boxes was bad.

I don’t think it took a while for investors to realize, I think investors had an accurate model of what was going on. When Ballmer left things improved.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#819

Post by valdiorn »

theptip wrote: post #435
the_local_host wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But he's not strictly talking about "bad employees"; he explicitly mentions firing people for "the basic reason that you don't need this role any more". That's not invalid by itself as long as everyone knows that the game is purely transactional. But it isn't fair to expect employee "passion" when their own continued employment is contingent on whether management thinks they're still necessary.

The OP is 100% right here. Sometimes the needs of the company change as the company grows, and people can’t keep up. Or people change and they can’t give what the company needs from them any more. This is one of the hard aspects of being a manager in a startup that’s growing quickly. The easiest example to grok would be if you had hired a VP of sales who is an expert in B2C selling, then you pivot your product to a B…

That seems like a deal that's slanted extremely in favour of the company.

Don't expect passion and dedication if the company doesn't offer the same guarantee back when the going gets tough or they change direction. You treat your staff like mercenaries, that's what you'll get.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#820

Post by shadowgovt »

secondcoming wrote: post #812
shadowgovt wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case, the company is offering the yoga as something you can do during your work hours. Google doesn't really have "contracted core hours" precisely. They have quarterly goals. If you're accomplishing those goals, the corporate culture doesn't much care how. This offers flexibility that can make it easier to accomplish tasks (I knew people who worked 6AM-2PM because the center-of-mass of their team was in a di…

Fair enough. But I'd assume that there's an implicit understanding in that agreement that if you're needed for something work-related you probably shouldn't go to yoga, i.e. they assume you'll be an adult about it.

Correct. It's pretty loose and varies from team to team, but the generally-applicable rule is "We have OKRs each quarter. If we're not hitting them, that's a problem." How a team goes about hitting them is left as the responsibility of the team.

One way that process can break down is if you have a manager that's bad at planning or over-promising for your team without testing the wind of how much work their engineers will actually get done. Google makes it pretty easy for demonstrated high-performers to change teams, so if you do that too much you run the risk of hemorrhaging good team members (who can't get promoted if goals aren't met and therefore will seek out a team that knows how to meet goals) and being left trying to get your tasks accomplished with only the people who, for whatever reason, can't transfer.

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