Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint • Hacker News Board

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#921

Post by ralfd » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 9:16 AM UTC

aboringusername wrote: post #11

It feels a bit hypocritical when Apple laughs at FB for complaining about their new tracking pop-up yet when the shoe's on the other foot and Apple may actually have to compete on its own platform they double down and defend their right to be judge, jury and executioner. Apple competing with third party app stores on iOS is going to be amazing. No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other st…

We are talking about games though. And it is the case for games on Nintendo. For Playstation. Xbox. I don't see a category difference here. A producer should decide what kind of product they want to make and the market will decide if it is bought.

Plus: Apple mandated better privacy for users. How could they do that with sideloading app stores? They couldn't.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#922

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 9:19 AM UTC

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #566

AttakBanana wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, the harm is 30% more expensive apps. If devs can't avoid the cut, its only going to get passed down to the user.

Ahh so harm now is spending any money. I was harmed by my grocery store for charging me 1.50 for milk! 30% is more than fair. People spend more money on the App Store than competitors. Developers want access to that. it shouldn't be free.

[deleted]

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#923

Post by kuschku » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 9:23 AM UTC

enos_feedler wrote: post #785

amelius wrote: post #769

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. Distribution of computer programs has been done since the beginning of computing. Also, there is innovation in the water supply (which most people are unaware of).

Can you send me your mailing address? I have a cool game for you to check out on a 3.5" floppy. It's also going to install a virus on your computer and you'll need to format your machine after. This was my life in the 6th grade and my dad literally beat me for messing up his computer. I don't want to go back there.

Send me your floppy to Janne Mareike Koschinski, Lortzingstr. 16, 40667 Meerbusch, Germany.

I'd love to look at the software on that floppy, including the virus (it's always fun discovering a novel virus, if there's also games on there even better)

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#924

Post by kuschku » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 9:28 AM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #495

adamdusty wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I figured you were right, so I just signed up for prime.. through the app, and it didn't use the play store payment system, so Google isn't taking a cut. Again, I have no idea what is possible on the Apple version, but I have subscriptions on other apps that go through the play store payment system. I'm not an expert on app store policies for payments, but I don't use any other apps that have subscription payment tha…

I'm pretty sure on the Play Store, only games are required to use Google's payment method. (Others can optionally choose to of course.) On iOS though, apps need to use Apple's payment system for any digital good. Unless you're an Amazon Prime member renting a video.

On the play store you even have to use google's payment method for 501(3)(c) donations (but they'll reduce the fee if you're a registered nonprofit)

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#925

Post by m12k » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 9:33 AM UTC

covercash wrote: post #106

m12k wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those consumers should have every right to stay in that sandbox. And the rest of us should have the right to use a different one.

You do have that right, it’s called Android.

I believe consumer choice is essential to making markets efficient. I think more of it is better. For example I also think we should have a right to repair, so companies are forced to give me a choice to repair instead of throwing away and buying anew. Sure, you could say I could just vote with my wallet and not do business with any company that does not prioritize repairability. But in reality that doesn't work because the vast majority of companies don't do that because it's in their interest that I need to buy a new thing every couple of years. So I need a right to repair law to give me, as a consumer, some reasonable choices that it's not in the companies' own interest to give me.

Exactly the same thing goes for what I do with the devices I buy, and what software I install on them. It's not in Apple's interest that I have a choice of what source of apps I use - but giving me as a consumer that choice would expand the market (e.g. by making it possible to sell an app-based service with a 20% profit margin - currently if you tried to make one, you'd lose 10% on every sale). So yes, consumers currently have a choice of which side of the duopoly they want to live on. I believe more choice would be better, both for consumers and for the ecosystem as a whole.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#926

Post by kuschku » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 9:33 AM UTC

techpression wrote: post #235

maratc wrote: post #169

Anytime Epic/Apple thing comes up, a very relevant quote is what their judge (YGR) said on their case: > “Well plaintiffs always want me to define relevant markets as narrowly as possible. It helps their case. And defendants always want me to define markets as broad as possible, because it helps their case.” The big elephant in the room is gaming consoles. If you see iPhone more or less in line with PC/Mac, you may a…

I like this idea, much like Windows N (that the EU fought years for boasting how good it was for consumers and yet nobody bought it) Apple could release a iPhone - insecure edition, offering no security features, just like how Microsoft removed media playback features. Let the actual consumers decide instead of heavy handed government. But I guess most commentators want to eat the cake, sell it and keep it at the sam…

Actually, Windows 10 only sells N editions. If you want to play back media, you'll have to buy media codecs separately in the Windows Store.

And it turns out that was actually a benefit for consumers.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#927

Post by xondono » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 10:47 AM UTC

herbst wrote: post #758

herecomestracer wrote: post #745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would trust Netflix. Other companies? Not so much. Missing the point. Sure, many users will trust the Netflix app, but we only need one trustworthy app (like Netflix) to open the gate for all other kinds of untrustworthy apps to also skip the check.

How so? Android is still asking every single time you install a non market app, spooky enough that nether my mum nor my gf consider clicking proceed without asking someone if they should.

And who are they asking? Because I think you overestimate how many tech savvy people are there.

Most people I've heard referred as "tech savvy" are just plain old gamers, and they can be easily tricked.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#928

Post by quenix » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 10:49 AM UTC

Osiris wrote: post #887

elefanten wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except as soon as it becomes a remotely feasible action (with simple instructions) for the general consumer, a bunch of businesses will start requiring their users to disable "default Grandma mode". Imagine onboarding for Netflix including a pleasantly designed screen saying "Before you can use Netflix, you must Enable Third-party Stores. Go to Settings > Privacy..." If that comes to pass, there will be no highly-gua…

This hasn't happened on Android where third party stores and side loading are available and have been since the beginning.

What? This has most definitely been happening on Android for almost a decade. That app ecosystem is a mess.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#929

Post by xondono » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 10:50 AM UTC

gerash wrote: post #866

WillPostForFood wrote: post #833

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When has the market been given a choice? The choice now is between Apple and Android ecosystems. The best Android phones have comparable hardware to the iPhone, so people are choosing based on software, price, and status.

Switching phones OS is not a smooth experience where you click a button. Your app configs, purchased media, etc. won't transfer easily if at all.

It's not infinitely costly anyway.

If this is keeping people from switching, then the costs are infinitessimal. Samsung has great importers for you to switch platforms.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#930

Post by xondono » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 11:02 AM UTC

I hope Epic loses in a spectacular way.

At this point, if Apple is forced to allow third parties, I'll lose one of the best time savers I have in my life. Having switched all of my family and close relatives to Apple gives me the freedom of not having to provide almost any support. They are trained to use the platform (and its UI has been stable for years), and I can trust that they won't do anything too crazy just because [insert social network] or [crappy game in vogue] want to sideload a lot of bloatware and spyware on their phones.

When they had android phones, I would get regular phonecalls that went like this:

"My friend X has an app that does [irrelevant stupidity that requires full permissions], how can I do that?" "You shouldn't, this will have access to all of your info" "I don't care, just tell me how to do it"

Then 2 weeks later I'd get another call complaining of how full of ads everything is when they try to open a browser. I tried to disuade them by saying "Your phone can't do that", but that just meant that they ended up changing phones, because now they feel that their phone is inferior.

When they switched to iPhones, i can just tell them "Your phone doesn't do that", and they had no problem. They realized that bragging for 10 minutes was an idiotic thing to do anyway, and they felt great, because they still have a flagship phone, "it's an iPhone!".