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Starlink is now Accepting General Pre-orders

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Re: Starlink is now Accepting General Pre-orders

#301

Post by spystath »

sgtnoodle wrote: post #154
dogecoinbase wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> b. no ipv6 yet. They have people who know what they are doing for neteng so I am sure it is planned. heh, my assumption when I hear that people who know what they're doing are involved is the opposite ;) Thank you for the detailed report! I'm very excited for the tech, especially once the lasers are up and it doesn't rely on the base station (i.e. I can take my uplink on a road trip)

Lol, the fact that they just went with IPv4 supports the theory that they know what they're doing. I've read multiple tutorials on IPv6 and it's so complicated that I still can't grasp how it all works in my head. For some context, I've personally written an Ethernet IPv4 network stack with DHCP from scratch. I also worked on Ethernet switch firmware, coincidentally for SpaceX...

Going through the trouble of implementing CGNAT and skipping IPv6 seems like a partially degraded service for the end user though. It's becoming common practice for ISPs to slap all the users between two layers of NAT and calling it a day. You can't run essentially anything on your network (not even an SSH server) without having to have a server on standby and reverse tunnels. I know there are not enough IPv4s but at least let me having the option to pay for one. Or, you know, give me an IPv6. Otherwise it's practically a networked content consumption service at this point. It's 2021, the "IPv6 is complicated" excuse must stop at some point.

Re: Starlink is now Accepting General Pre-orders

#302

Post by midasuni »

secfirstmd wrote: post #54

I'm currently in the middle of trying to help loads of human rights defenders in Myanmar plan to deal with the internet shut downs that are happening. Satellite stuff like Iridium is too crazily expensive to be useful. I really wish some thing like this was available.

Last weekend two of my team were working hard getting Inmarsat beans up in Myanmar. Those tend to be illegal imports though - I’d be very surprised if countries that turn off in greener would license satelite ip modems

Re: Starlink is now Accepting General Pre-orders

#304

Post by lxgr »

walrus01 wrote: post #97
colordrops wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I regularly get 12ms latency to google over my DOCSIS3 cable coax connection.

This will vary greatly depending on how loaded your particular cablemodem segment is, how the channel bonding is set up, how enthusiastic your neighbors are about downloading things like 65GB torrents of 2160p60 movies. If there is an 8.8.8.8 anycast node somewhere in your city, and you are kinda close to downtown, less than 1.5ms of that could be the fiber path from your ISP to their peering with google and back, an…

Very true. I'm seeing an average of 100ms to the first hop (and about the same to 8.8.8.8) during the day on mine, with lows of 50-60ms, and the occasional 10 second peaks.

At night it's something like 10ms.

Re: Starlink is now Accepting General Pre-orders

#305

Post by lxgr »

sgtnoodle wrote: post #154
dogecoinbase wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> b. no ipv6 yet. They have people who know what they are doing for neteng so I am sure it is planned. heh, my assumption when I hear that people who know what they're doing are involved is the opposite ;) Thank you for the detailed report! I'm very excited for the tech, especially once the lasers are up and it doesn't rely on the base station (i.e. I can take my uplink on a road trip)

Lol, the fact that they just went with IPv4 supports the theory that they know what they're doing. I've read multiple tutorials on IPv6 and it's so complicated that I still can't grasp how it all works in my head. For some context, I've personally written an Ethernet IPv4 network stack with DHCP from scratch. I also worked on Ethernet switch firmware, coincidentally for SpaceX...

IPv6 really isn't that complicated compared to CGNAT!

Of course, today IPv6 only can't be considered full internet access, so providers usually need both – and given that CGNAT gets consumers 99% of what they want/are willing to pay for, providers sometimes can't be bothered to also implement IPv6.

I used to have GCNAT + IPv6 on my provider, but the v6 part of their CPE was worse than useless – no option to open ports since "port forwarding is not needed on IPv6" (nevermind the mandatory firewall that doesn't allow inbound traffic unless completely disabled).

Re: Starlink is now Accepting General Pre-orders

#306

Post by midasuni »

syedkarim wrote: post #139
AlexDanger wrote: post #103

I'm a big believer in Starlink and SpaceX generally. It annoys me that I can not invest in these big bold innovations directly. Has anyone thought about how to invest indirectly on the belief that Starlink will succeed? For instance, are there satellite equipment suppliers or other upstream supplier who stand to profit with Starlink's success? Likewise, who might fail based on Starlink's success? Should I be shorting…

There are dozens of custom ICs from STMicroelectronics in each terminal. ST is a public company; NYSE:STM The terminal is also using a large amount of high-frequency substrate. That could be Rogers, but maybe one of the much cheaper Chinese materials. But I don’t think a position should be taken based on what’s inside of a terminal. The real play is in shorting the entire satellite industry. Every existing satellite…

We have hindered a of Inmarsat base stations and sims around the world. Rarely use them, but when we do we are happy to pay for the bandwidth, and we spend a lot each year pre-buying bandwidth whether we use it or not.

They are now moving to charge us a monthly fee per station, not as much as starlink yet, but it seems an odd choice. Perhaps a final squeeze of their customers.

Bgans still have a benefit - smaller than starlink, battery powered, movable, but this latest move has made us reevaluate our satellite strategy, and that’s never a good thing for incumbents.

Re: Starlink is now Accepting General Pre-orders

#307

Post by walrus01 »

andbberger wrote: post #285
walrus01 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That and because the atmosphere is not clear (this is why 1Gbps free space laser network bridges have very limited range), the links from satellite to earth in any rf band will be very small in capacity as compared to a singlemode fiber cable. Space to space lasers, sure... Much clearer.

Starlink ground links are RF

That's what I said

Re: Starlink is now Accepting General Pre-orders

#308

Post by mothsonasloth »

I live on the Western Isles of Scotland

I tried random places near me to see if they show up on Starlink

The nearest one to me is Stornoway (the main town on Harris)

I am about 50 miles away from it

Would this solution work? Currently I am happy with my 4G internet but always interested to try something else.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/57%C2%B038'54.0%22N+7%C2%B...

Also the Satellite doesn't look like it would do well in a coastal area with saltwater.

Re: Starlink is now Accepting General Pre-orders

#309

Post by n4r9 »

Robotbeat wrote: post #194
walrus01 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in terms of raw capacity, I do not think that the intersatellite laser links (if/when they do get that working, which is a long ways off, 10 out of the 1050+ satellites right now have them, and none in production use), will approach anywhere near the capacity of a 40 or 80 channel, coherent 100/200/400GbE DWDM submarine line terminal. it's a whole other order of magnitudes.

It's not exactly a long ways off if a dozen satellites are already using it (there were 2 previous ones). Every time SpaceX makes a goal, someone claims it's really far away until it is completed. If there was a need for Terabit/s laser capacity for Starlink, there's no particularly good reason it couldn't be developed.

Musk does tend to achieve his goals eventually although the timescales are generally 2-7 years too ambitious:

www.bloomberg.com/features/elon-musk-goals

Re: Starlink is now Accepting General Pre-orders

#310

Post by midasuni »

sandos wrote: post #180
new_realist wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DOCSIS 3 latency is 8ms in my experience; fiber is 1.5ms.

I had to try my fiber connection. I get 0.6 - 0.8 ms within our town which is not that big, To Stockholm, which is only 80 or so km away if you measure straight line, is 3.5 ms away. Iv'e always been curious as to what adds so much latency and what I did read was that its the network equipment itself mostly. The inherent latency in the fiber should be on the order of much less than 1 ms as far as I understand. 3.33 u…

Traceroute work by routers decrementing the ttl as the packet passes. If a router doesn’t decrement, or if your packet gets bundled into an mpls, the hops may be hidden.

Then you’ve got the buffers - you could feed 5x100M streams on 1G carriers into a 1G uplink port and have plenty of bandwidth, but if all the packets of those 100M streams arrive in 100ms, then have no packet for the next 900ms, your outbound traffic will have to either delay your packets upto 900ms, or drop them.

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