How does this happen in the richest country in the world which basically has monopoly on global monetary policy and prints $$ with impunity?
Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now
271–280 of 347 posts
Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
In California it’s about 30 to 40 cents kWh during normal times.
> In California it’s about 30 to 40 cents kWh during normal times. https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/ 16.89 ¢/kW in 2019. Where did you get 30-40 ¢/kW?
I don't know where that website is getting its info but it is way off from reality.
The cheapest possible PG&E (Silicon Valley) rate is off-peak (after midnight) winter rate. Looking at my January bill here right in front of me, that rate is $0.16675 for transmission + $0.05525 for generation. So that's 22.2c/kWh. That's the cheapest it ever gets.
The most expensive tier is peak (afternoon to midnight) in the summer, 62c/kWh.
Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
It didn't have to be this way :( https://www.energy-net.org/01NUKE/CALIF.HTM "Northern California is the home of the first successful opposition to the promotion and development of commercial nuclear reactors in the U.S. In the 1950's northern and central California's privately owned utility company, PG&E, was planning to be one of the giants in the new field of nuclear energy."
> > In California it’s about 30 to 40 cents kWh during normal times. > It didn't have to be this way :( And, it's not! The claimed price is in the ballpark of double the actual price.
Sorry but you're way off. Please take a look at an actual PG&E bill.
Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, daily averages vary wildly in industrialised countries with real time electricity pricing. In much of Europe, residential, and office will pay $0.3-0.5 during normal use in winter, but dramatically less in off-peak hour in countries with "smart meters." This way you get seemingly sensible $0.1-$0.2 per kWh averages , but drop your jaw when you see your electricity bill.
Just like a car load of hard disks driven 2000 miles has greater bandwidth than transmitting that same data over the internet, I wonder if you could arbitrage Texas electric costs by driving a semi-truck full of Tesla Powerwall batteries from Florida.
Congratz, you just invented the possibly least energy efficient way to construct interconnected grids.
But in all seriousness, this is why the entire world interconnects their grids as much as possible: arbitraging energy needs (/ cost).
Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now
#275There’s an elegant solution to all this: better energy efficiency for buildings. It’s funny seeing people in this thread jumping right past the root cause and suggesting elaborate solutions like nuclear power. And before you say it’s not feasible to upgrade hundreds of millions of buildings in the USA, you should be aware that upgrading homes to be more energy efficient actually pays for itself (albeit in the long ru…
I'd love to see us start building energy efficient homes. A bit more up front investment would give huge returns.
A problem is that conserving doesn't in the end produce any cost savings, which is a perverse disincentive to conserve.
Water during the CA droughts a few years ago is a perfect example. Water agencies asked people to conserve water. So people did. A lot. Water agencies promptly freaked out because their revenue decreased. Of course it did, people were conserving water.
So they increased the base rates (the amount they'll bill you even if consumption is zero) to compensate (and then some). In my town, base rate went from a few dollars to almost $80.
So even though my consumption went down about 20% from my efforts to conserve, my monthly bill went up from around $40 to near $100.
So what's my incentive to conserve?
Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
900/Mwh is 90c per kwh. Normal wholesale is about 5-7c. Retail national average is about 14. Higher cost states are around 20c with Hawaii near 30c.
90c per kwh in crunch time is still comparably cheap in comparison with much of the world. I've been in countries where cooking 1 dish on electric oven will cost you $1. Much of Europe has price hovering in between 30c to 50c during day hours normal usage, and easily more than double of that during extreme peaks like ones you have in Texas now.
Are you sure? Because 30c seems to be the absolute highest in Europe, which is Germany. [0] With the average being 0,21c. This is residential pricing though, so it includes a lot of taxes.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...
Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, daily averages vary wildly in industrialised countries with real time electricity pricing. In much of Europe, residential, and office will pay $0.3-0.5 during normal use in winter, but dramatically less in off-peak hour in countries with "smart meters." This way you get seemingly sensible $0.1-$0.2 per kWh averages , but drop your jaw when you see your electricity bill.
Just like a car load of hard disks driven 2000 miles has greater bandwidth than transmitting that same data over the internet, I wonder if you could arbitrage Texas electric costs by driving a semi-truck full of Tesla Powerwall batteries from Florida.
Loaded 3 wide, 2 high, 90 deep for space constraints, you'd be well over the gross weight limit.
Loaded to the weight limit, you can ballpark 48K pounds or 174 Powerwall 2s. Those would hold just under 2.5MWh, or just over $2K of electricity at $900/MWh.
If you figure the truck costs you $1.50/mile on the low side, it would cost you at least $1500 to drive Pensacola to Houston and back.
Probably not a retirement plan to (Power)bank on.
Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
> > In California it’s about 30 to 40 cents kWh during normal times. > It didn't have to be this way :( And, it's not! The claimed price is in the ballpark of double the actual price.
Sorry but you're way off. Please take a look at an actual PG&E bill.
> Sorry but you're way off.
No, the federal Energy Information Agency and Bureau of Labor Statistics are not wrong.
> Please take a look at an actual PG&E bill.
Looking at an actual bill will tell you what you pay, not what is typical in the state. And if it's a PG&E bill, it will tell you a significantly higher number than is paid in non-PG&E areas (which make up a majority of the state, and which include significant territories throughout Northern and Central California, including parts of the Bay Area, as well as pretty much all of Southern California.)
Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nevada or even Mexico could play regulatory arbitrage, build nuclear plants in their jurisdictions, and export the electricity to California. I suppose Mexico might be cheaper as Nevada lacks water, particularly in remote regions where there'd be the least local resistance. Baja California has the Pacific and the Gulf of California; Sonora has the Gulf of California. California's unique history of opposition to nucle…
The vast majority of nuclear power plants are built next to oceans and large lakes. The one that my sibling commenters mentioned in Arizona is the only exception to that rule in the US.
Large nuclear power plants have unique cooling needs. You must place them near a big body of water or risk shutting them down because of insufficient cooling if you place then near rivers.
Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
Southwest Gas asked their Arizona natural gas customers to cut back as the pipeline through Arizona feeds Texas.
Did they? I have two properties serviced by them and didn’t get any notification.
>Southwest Gas is asking customers to conserve resources as states contend with cold weather.
According to the utility, shortages are not anticipated in Arizona, but conservation will help maintain the interstate pipeline system.
https://www.kgun9.com/news/local-news/southwest-gas-asks-cus...