68% of the top links on Facebook since September are in support of Donald Trump • Hacker News Board

Re: 68% of the top links on Facebook since September are in support of Donald Trump

#81

Post by danans » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 3:36 AM UTC

p1necone wrote: post #79

danans wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. None of these are static categories, and even if Shapiro's litany of X-phobic views were previously 'alt-right', they are now part of the mainstream political right (and its manifestation in the Republican party). As a result I think it's genuinely hard to be a non X-phobic conservative these days.

This kinda parallels the alt-rock of the 90s as mentioned in other comments. Back then it was called that because it was "alternative" to what was mainstream rock, but over time it eclipsed the mainstream and now most new rock music falls under the "alt-rock" umbrella.

To continue with alt-music analogies, I am a big fan of alt-country (bands like Wilco, Son Volt, etc) who were the alternative to the dominant pop-country genre. IIRC in recent years that genre has influenced pop country but never really merged with it.

Re: 68% of the top links on Facebook since September are in support of Donald Trump

#82

Post by xupybd » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 5:25 AM UTC

danans wrote: post #46

FFRefresh wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does 'alt' mean when added as a prefix to left or right to you? What % of people on the right would you consider alt-right? What % of people on the left would you consider alt-left?

> What does 'alt' mean when added as a prefix to left or right to you? Not the GP, but the 'alt' prefix to me seems to invoke the similar usage in the term 'alternative' music like Nirvana, Pearl Jam, etc, which were an 'alternative' to pop music from the 80s and 90s. The prefix suggests a change of type and not just a change of degree. They aren't just "more conservative Republicans". This is why it applies more to…

I think you are correct in your definition. But if you are many people use it incorrectly. It's thrown at most conservatives. While most conservatives find ethnic nationalism appalling. That said nationalism is appealing to a large percentage of conservatives.

Re: 68% of the top links on Facebook since September are in support of Donald Trump

#83

Post by xupybd » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 5:27 AM UTC

DSingularity wrote: post #16

macspoofing wrote: post #6

Ben Shapiro and Dan Bongino, and 'conservative media' are alt-right now? Great journalism here. This doofus author clearly shows what he's about.

Ben Shapiro is definitely a fascist and most certainly a racist but that doesn’t make him alt-right. What the hell is alt-right anyways? As in, what are the fundamental principles of its ideology?

I'm honestly surprised to hear you accuse Ben of racism. What stances does he hold that lead you to that conclusion?

Re: 68% of the top links on Facebook since September are in support of Donald Trump

#84

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 10:30 AM UTC

lrvick wrote: post #29

kypro wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He also claims he is not alt right, not homophobic, and not racist. So there is that. Would you claim you're not alt-right, homophobic or racist? You seem like the kind of person who would deny all those labels to be honest.

I probably am a little sexist, homophobic, transphobic, and racist in ways I don't fully realize due to my privileges. Unlike Shapiro however you will be unlikely to find any overtly bigoted content scrolling through my public commentary.

[deleted]

Re: 68% of the top links on Facebook since September are in support of Donald Trump

#85

Post by DSingularity » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 11:54 AM UTC

xupybd wrote: post #83

DSingularity wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ben Shapiro is definitely a fascist and most certainly a racist but that doesn’t make him alt-right. What the hell is alt-right anyways? As in, what are the fundamental principles of its ideology?

I'm honestly surprised to hear you accuse Ben of racism. What stances does he hold that lead you to that conclusion?

Read his own words. One tweet [1] is still up about how Israelis “like to build” (settlements) while Arabs like to “bomb and live in sewage”. For your own information, the context is regarding the settlements that Israelis like to build in Palestinian territory. The Palestinian area is depopulated by uzi-wielding settlers and military bulldozers. All countries of the world (including the US) consider these settlements a violation of human rights and international laws. What’s more racist than that?

[1] https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/25712847277?s=21

Re: 68% of the top links on Facebook since September are in support of Donald Trump

#86

Post by DSingularity » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 12:06 PM UTC

FFRefresh wrote: post #18

DSingularity wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ben Shapiro is definitely a fascist and most certainly a racist but that doesn’t make him alt-right. What the hell is alt-right anyways? As in, what are the fundamental principles of its ideology?

How do you determine who is a fascist? Do you take into account any counter-evidence when making such a deduction?

I’m not throwing the fascist label because he is a right-winger. I’m throwing it because he supports a military which rules over a subset of the civilian population with the merciless boot. And that military rule is the Israeli rule over Palestinians in the occupied territories. That’s why I called him a fascist racist.

Re: 68% of the top links on Facebook since September are in support of Donald Trump

#87

Post by red01 » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 8:29 PM UTC

p1necone wrote: post #10

macspoofing wrote: post #6

Ben Shapiro and Dan Bongino, and 'conservative media' are alt-right now? Great journalism here. This doofus author clearly shows what he's about.

You're going to have to explain why you don't think Ben Shapiro is alt-right, he's basically a poster child for them.

The militant Zionism should tip you off he's a Neocon.

Re: 68% of the top links on Facebook since September are in support of Donald Trump

#88

Post by xupybd » Thu, Feb 18, 2021, 10:43 PM UTC

DSingularity wrote: post #85

xupybd wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm honestly surprised to hear you accuse Ben of racism. What stances does he hold that lead you to that conclusion?

Read his own words. One tweet [1] is still up about how Israelis “like to build” (settlements) while Arabs like to “bomb and live in sewage”. For your own information, the context is regarding the settlements that Israelis like to build in Palestinian territory. The Palestinian area is depopulated by uzi-wielding settlers and military bulldozers. All countries of the world (including the US) consider these settlement…

Ah fair call. I had not factored in his Zionist views.

I think he has apologised for that one but it still shows some genuine racism.

Re: 68% of the top links on Facebook since September are in support of Donald Trump

#89

Post by macspoofing » Fri, Feb 19, 2021, 10:23 AM UTC

lrvick wrote: post #29

kypro wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He also claims he is not alt right, not homophobic, and not racist. So there is that. Would you claim you're not alt-right, homophobic or racist? You seem like the kind of person who would deny all those labels to be honest.

I probably am a little sexist, homophobic, transphobic, and racist in ways I don't fully realize due to my privileges. Unlike Shapiro however you will be unlikely to find any overtly bigoted content scrolling through my public commentary.

You know, it's not OK to be racist, so I'm not sure why you are proud of self-identifying as such. It's not OK even if, as you claim, you grew up with a silver spoon. You know what's in your heart of hearts, so please work on whatever it is that you identified in yourself that makes you hate others for things that they cannot control.

Re: 68% of the top links on Facebook since September are in support of Donald Trump

#90

Post by lrvick » Fri, Feb 19, 2021, 12:53 PM UTC

macspoofing wrote: post #89

lrvick wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I probably am a little sexist, homophobic, transphobic, and racist in ways I don't fully realize due to my privileges. Unlike Shapiro however you will be unlikely to find any overtly bigoted content scrolling through my public commentary.

You know, it's not OK to be racist, so I'm not sure why you are proud of self-identifying as such. It's not OK even if, as you claim, you grew up with a silver spoon. You know what's in your heart of hearts, so please work on whatever it is that you identified in yourself that makes you hate others for things that they cannot control.

I think every person with privilege likely contributes to harming other demographics in ways they don't fully understand. I built my current life from homelessness and used to think I came up from nothing... but it wasn't nothing. On my worst day I was white, cis, male, straight, and healthy. That is basically a cheat code in this game. I had to step back from patting myself on the back as much because I won a race built for me to win at the expense of others.

I will forever be a work in progress when it comes to extending my privileges to others to stop the cycle. I would rather commit to the mindset that I am always a little bit unconcioisly bigoted and contributing to the problem than thinking I have reached some plateau of perfect ethically balanced harmony with others. My male blood relatives all have confederate flag tattoos, and boldly claim they are not racist in spite of openly admitting they only trust other white people.

I try to never let myself reach the denial stage anymore. It is a trap.