The state that brought us Enron now getting Enron'd itself. Turnabout is fair play! Sucks for the regular folk, though...
Please don't take HN threads into regional flamewar. That never ends well.
Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now
141–150 of 347 posts
Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
In California it’s about 30 to 40 cents kWh during normal times.
It didn't have to be this way :( https://www.energy-net.org/01NUKE/CALIF.HTM "Northern California is the home of the first successful opposition to the promotion and development of commercial nuclear reactors in the U.S. In the 1950's northern and central California's privately owned utility company, PG&E, was planning to be one of the giants in the new field of nuclear energy."
> > In California it’s about 30 to 40 cents kWh during normal times.
> It didn't have to be this way :(
And, it's not! The claimed price is in the ballpark of double the actual price.
Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now
#143I'm a big fan of renewables, solar/wind/hydro. But we still need that baseline generating capacity for these dark icy winter days. It's clear now that coal/oil isn't it (pollution) and we should reserve natural gas supply for home heating (because it's efficient and "relatively" clean) and spot-demand generators. So that leaves Nuclear. But we just need to get it right this time -- i.e. don't build them near earthqua…
Renewables are very reliable if you winter-proof them, the same as other sources. The problem at the moment is that none of the sources for Texas was prepared for a cold winter, renewable or otherwise. Quebec is 99% renewable[0] (95% hydro, 4% wind) and runs through the coldest of winter just fine! > With over 40 853 MW of installed capacity, hydroelectric stations generate about 95% of Quebec’s electricity. > Wind i…
I completely agree you can build hardy solar/wind generation (i.e. runs in winter), however, the sun still sets each day, and wind is intermittent and unpredictable. until there is a revolution in battery technology, relying on those two sources (without others types of generation) will result in large electricity price spikes.
Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
In California it’s about 30 to 40 cents kWh during normal times.
The average price paid for residential^W power in California last year was 16 cents, not 30, not 40.
Not sure where you’re getting 16 cents, the lowest PG&E tier is 24 cents [0]
[0] https://www.pge.com/pge_global/common/pdfs/rate-plans/how-ra...
To add, Santa Clara city is served by Silicon Valley Power which I believe has substantially lower rates than PG&E.. there may be other such local providers..
Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now
#145We should be busily building nuclear plants. This isn't going to get better otherwise.
I'm all for more nuclear, but FYI, nuclear plants were affected like everything else in Texas this week: https://atomicinsights.com/south-texas-project-unit-1-trippe... Ideally new ones would be designed better to avoid this possibility, but new nuclear plants take a minimum of 5 years if you're really sprinting. It's probably the most difficult, expensive, and time-consuming option compared to weather-hardening exis…
No type of power plant is immune to mismanagement, sadly.
Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now
#146Texas electric prices have been capped at $9000/MWHr for the last few days. Average is about $35/MWhr. The Texas electric bill is about $10 billion per day right now.
Yeah, a large fraction of the natural gas infrastructure froze and the governor prioritized gas for home heating over electrical generation.
So natural gas spot prices have gone from around $3-MMBTU to like $350-MMBTU and there is 30GW of electrical generating capacity offline.
Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now
#147Do wholesale prices directly translate to consumer prices?
Likely not, and that's part of the reason why it's so high in the first place. Price is a function of supply and demand. In this case the supply is limited, but demand stays the same because there's basically zero incentive for consumers to reduce discretionary electricity usage.
it's pretty crazy. even when we are not in the middle of a 'once in a generation' winter storm electricity prices regularly spike as much as 100x as peak gen ramps up, and the whole world (basically) goes on consuming it as if the price is static. like what if gasoline cost gas stations $30/gallon between 4-7pm and they just kept on selling it at $2-3/gallon?
Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now
#148Texas electric prices have been capped at $9000/MWHr for the last few days. Average is about $35/MWhr. The Texas electric bill is about $10 billion per day right now.
Looks around 1k right now.
http://www.ercot.com/content/cdr/contours/rtmLmp.html
There must be lots of generators making bank.
Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In California it’s about 30 to 40 cents kWh during normal times. https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/ 16.89 ¢/kW in 2019. Where did you get 30-40 ¢/kW?
https://www.pge.com/pge_global/common/pdfs/rate-plans/how-ra... https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHED...
Yikes. I’m in California but pay 17¢/kWh including the fixed monthly costs. (My tiers are 10.5¢, 16.8¢, and 19.1¢)
I love my municipal utility.
Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not directly. In Texas and other deregulated markets, you can be on either a fixed rate for n months or on a variable rate. If you're on a variable rate, the rate will be much higher than normal for the next few months. If you're on a fixed rate you're fine for now, but keep an eye on when your fixed rate expires. This assumes that your supplier is still in business after the next few months (many suppliers will go b…
> If you are in a regulated market or are using the regulated utilities like ConEd in NYC, you'll see limited rate increases to deal with the increased cost to supply. These rate increases need to be approved by the state's Public Utility Commission. If deregulated suppliers are having to raise prices to cover costs, wouldn't that apply to regulated suppliers as well? Unless they have enough cash on hand to ride it o…
As mentioned by others, in the regulated markets they're required to factor in these contingencies, amortized over the expected length of time between events of this scale.