Live data from Hacker News

Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

caiso.com

131–140 of 347 posts

Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#131
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is 90c/KWh. Arguably very expensive rate for electricity. Not sure if related to the Texas/ERCOT grid situation, as the DC tie-ins are not that substantial.

In California it’s about 30 to 40 cents kWh during normal times.

As others have stated this seems high. I'm in SoCal with SCE and my rates are around 22 cents/kwh for tier 1, 28 cents/kwh for tier 2, and 35 cents/kwh for tier 3. I have a 2k square foot home and a family of 5 and we never hit tier 3.

Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#132
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California it’s about 30 to 40 cents kWh during normal times.

It didn't have to be this way :( https://www.energy-net.org/01NUKE/CALIF.HTM "Northern California is the home of the first successful opposition to the promotion and development of commercial nuclear reactors in the U.S. In the 1950's northern and central California's privately owned utility company, PG&E, was planning to be one of the giants in the new field of nuclear energy."

Nevada or even Mexico could play regulatory arbitrage, build nuclear plants in their jurisdictions, and export the electricity to California.

I suppose Mexico might be cheaper as Nevada lacks water, particularly in remote regions where there'd be the least local resistance. Baja California has the Pacific and the Gulf of California; Sonora has the Gulf of California.

California's unique history of opposition to nuclear is unfortunate, but there are larger dynamics that are also suffocating nuclear in California; dynamics that at most are only marginally stronger in California as compared to elsewhere in the United States. Oregon or Washington could also build more nuclear plants. They already export a significant amount of electricity to California, especially to Southern California. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_DC_Intertie) Nuclear is disfavored everywhere, and even where it's allowed and nominally profitable the RoI still sucks, so it doesn't take much friction to shift investment elsewhere. We need change at the national level to make nuclear practical again.

Though, now I'm genuinely curious why Mexico doesn't have more than its current two nuclear plants. PEMEX? (Note: Not that I think that Mexico is some third-world country bereft of regulations and organized opposition. I'm sure many of the reasons are similar as elsewhere. Still, I bet therein lie some interesting and informative stories.)

Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#133

Sitting here from texas with no power. I'm cold. I hope my fish don't die. Not looking forward to my gas bill.

At least gas is pretty cheap. I hope your fish make it. And now you know the value of camping gear :)

My expensive 12v camping fridge and lithium battery just saved the contents of my fridge so there's that at least.

Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#134
post #71

I'm a big fan of renewables, solar/wind/hydro. But we still need that baseline generating capacity for these dark icy winter days. It's clear now that coal/oil isn't it (pollution) and we should reserve natural gas supply for home heating (because it's efficient and "relatively" clean) and spot-demand generators. So that leaves Nuclear. But we just need to get it right this time -- i.e. don't build them near earthqua…

Renewables are very reliable if you winter-proof them, the same as other sources. The problem at the moment is that none of the sources for Texas was prepared for a cold winter, renewable or otherwise. Quebec is 99% renewable[0] (95% hydro, 4% wind) and runs through the coldest of winter just fine! > With over 40 853 MW of installed capacity, hydroelectric stations generate about 95% of Quebec’s electricity. > Wind i…

>Quebec is 99% renewable[0] (95% hydro, 4% wind) and runs through the coldest of winter just fine!

Comparing hydro to wind and solar is unreasonable.

Hydro is a battery, wind and solar are not.

Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#137
post #7
post #2

I need more context. Is that a lot? Is that low? Is it a big change from before? In what direction?

The scale embedded in the map maxes out at $150... So I would say it's a lot.

If you click on the dots, you'll see that the day ahead power prices are ~$900/MWh. It's extremely high.

Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California it’s about 30 to 40 cents kWh during normal times.

> In California it’s about 30 to 40 cents kWh during normal times. https://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/ 16.89 ¢/kW in 2019. Where did you get 30-40 ¢/kW?

https://www.pge.com/pge_global/common/pdfs/rate-plans/how-ra...

https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHED...

Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#139
post #71

I'm a big fan of renewables, solar/wind/hydro. But we still need that baseline generating capacity for these dark icy winter days. It's clear now that coal/oil isn't it (pollution) and we should reserve natural gas supply for home heating (because it's efficient and "relatively" clean) and spot-demand generators. So that leaves Nuclear. But we just need to get it right this time -- i.e. don't build them near earthqua…

I don't see why we need this so called baseline. It is an outdated concept pushed by the nuclear industry. We need (i) to harness the cheap energy coming from the sun and the wind and (ii) another source of energy to make up shortages when solar and wind are unavailable. The source (ii) should be able to be ramped up and shut down quickly, which is a requirement where nuclear flat out fails. The baseline concept of a…

The UK has Dinorwig Power Station which is a pumped storage hydro station to supply spot demand when it's time for tea:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station

But at the end of the day, it uses more energy than it generates due to the inefficiencies of pumping water up to the top of the mountain (basically, it's playing arbitrage with spot electricity pricing & demand).

Re: Electricity over $900/MWh in most of Western US now

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're correct that, "30 GW of thermal capacity is offline for various weather-related reasons is the primary reason the power is out." I think wind can play a huge role in fixing this. Check out: https://www.windy.com/?37.539,-94.134,4 And you've got plenty of massive offshore wind resources on both sides of the continent that are blowing right now (Feb 17th 7:49pm PDT) if we had installed capacity. We need to keep…

Ask anyone who has planned and installed a long-haul transmission line in the past 40 years and they'll tell you that that's gonna be extremely hard. It's simple technically, as is building a lot of a standardized nuclear plant, but it's not easy and will be hit by massive amounts of NIMBY.

Yes, the regulatory and NIMBY challenges are extreme.

Best way to do it is to go: 1. All underground transmission. 2. Expand the natural gas pipeline permitting process (which is controlled at the Federal level and already overrides state's jurisdiction) to include underground electrical transmission.

Post reply on HN