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'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

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Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#491

Post by animal_spirits »

illwrks wrote: post #50
agumonkey wrote: post #33

The big question is will internet free the good artists that were gatekeeped due to refusing debasing their core values. I have a feeling that only those ready to overcome any such hurdles have the grit to pursue a stage life, but I can be wrong.

The answer to that question is a "no". Those large companies are distributors, packaging a product and selling it to consumers. Think of distribution like a motorway Vs dirt road. If you're doing it yourself, you're running down that dirt road trying to get from point A to point B, battling with millions other people trying to do the same. If you're with a distribution company, you're on their branded luxury touring…

I'm reminded of a quote by Jack Stratton of Vulfpeck; "It reminds me of the comedy approach. You're just gonna eat it for ten years then hopefully be in a movie or something."

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#492

Post by salex89 »

zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #443

It depends on the company. I worked at a large international bank where we had a couple dozen project managers that would travel abroad for 2-6 weeks at a time. We had server set up in a storage closet with a huge porn cache. When the project managers came back to the US we would copy all the porn they had collected to the server, replace the porn on their laptops with new porn from the cache, then send them back abr…

I actually think this is the most amusing comment I've read on HN. Thanks. Workplaces seem so sterile these days.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#493

Post by oblib »

My father's ex-girlfriend went to work as a Kelly Girl for one of the biggest players in the music industry back in the early `70s. She ended up at the top of their executive positions and was paid very well and retired very comfortably. I can assure you she was never sexually harassed there.

I'm sure they had their parties and people mixed and hooked up, but that's not the same as "favors". They never invested money in something they didn't think would sell, and they made a shit ton of money.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#494

Post by giantDinosaur »

baby wrote: post #321
mensetmanusman wrote: post #61

The internet is enabling a new norm in reducing the cost of calling out behavior. Some of this is good, e.g. calling out sexual abuse. Some of this is bad, e.g. cancel culture that has no means of forgiveness.

That’s what I was telling a friend who’s against social media the other day. Without social media there would be no gay marriage. Social medias amplify minority issues.

That's a somewhat odd statement. Gay marriage was legalised in several countries before the advent of what we consider social media (Facebook etc.) - and a lot of other social change happened well before computers were even a thing, let alone instantaneous communication. Can you expand on what you mean?

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#495

Post by tomcam »

In my younger, prettier days I used to work in West Los Angeles, took acting classes, etc. It is pretty clear to me that something like a majority of the people you see onscreen, both male and female, were required to perform acts on Harvey Weinsteinesque characters to get the roles they had. If you think you only have to do that once or twice, remember that you can audition every day for months or even years without getting a role. If you're a dude, remember that you are very likely going to be servicing another dude whether you're straight or not. Also, when you're young it can be hard to tell who actually has the power actually to get you a role or not.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#496

Post by sokoloff »

skissane wrote: post #489
sokoloff wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was making a moral argument on whether the state has a monopoly. Of course the state holds a legal monopoly on the punishment.

But the state could give the victims rights. The state could give the victim the right to discontinue the prosecution against the state's wishes. The state doesn't give the victim that right, because the state cares more about its own power than about the victim. Of course there is the risk that victims might move for leniency due to psychological domination, grooming, threats, etc. However, I don't think that is wha…

If there's proof beyond a reasonable doubt (the criminal trial standard of proof) that he committed these crimes, society has an interest in seeing him punished, if for no other reason than as actual prevention [it would be quite hard for him to molest more girls while incarcerated].

If there's credible evidence (as reviewed by a grand jury, resulting in an indictment), society has an interest in seeing him tried for the reason above at least. If Geimer doesn't wish to cooperate in that trial, she should not be compelled to testify for the prosecution, but she should not hold the sole power to stop the trial from proceeding. (all in my opinion)

I don't think this is solely, and maybe not even primarily about the state seeking power, but rather properly exercising power granted it by the people.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#497

Post by stanfordkid »

zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #443

It depends on the company. I worked at a large international bank where we had a couple dozen project managers that would travel abroad for 2-6 weeks at a time. We had server set up in a storage closet with a huge porn cache. When the project managers came back to the US we would copy all the porn they had collected to the server, replace the porn on their laptops with new porn from the cache, then send them back abr…

Haha no one blows through $400k of cocaine in a month and survives. It's only $100 a bag (gram)! That would be 13 bags a day of coke.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#498

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

fulafel wrote: post #107
api wrote: post #14

Any time you have an industry where the number of people who want to do the work vastly outstrips demand and where there are gatekeepers, you are going to get a culture of abuse. It comes in various forms: sexual or other inappropriate favors for advancement, verbal abuse, or just abusive working conditions like sweatshop hours and burnout culture.

I wonder about game development, it shares a lot of the traits.

Historically game dev has definitely had a big boys club problem. It's better post gamergate, and the trend is heading the right way, but still, it's a bad problem.

What I saw personally, working on an ill fated unreal licensed property around 1999, wasn't sexual extortion. But it was a boys club that loved trading porn in the official irc channels for unreal engine support. CliffyB was particularly fond of posting pictures of his then girlfriend, as well as essentially rick rolling people with this picture involving a cactus and what appears to be a very uncomfortable sexual act.

It may not have been straight up extortion of sexual interactions, but I am sure that if you pushed back on that, you'd have found yourself fenced out of the very small community of people who have huge influence over whether your game ships. It certainly was not a welcoming environment to anyone other than immature young men, which is a label I'd apply to myself at that time for sure.

Again though, I want to emphasize I also see a positive trend in gaming in general. There's a long walk ahead, but the industry is actually walking the right direction, just slowly.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#499

Post by zxcvbn4038 »

c22 wrote: post #490
zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #443

It depends on the company. I worked at a large international bank where we had a couple dozen project managers that would travel abroad for 2-6 weeks at a time. We had server set up in a storage closet with a huge porn cache. When the project managers came back to the US we would copy all the porn they had collected to the server, replace the porn on their laptops with new porn from the cache, then send them back abr…

That porn server sounds like a huge liability. Did you have any vetting process to make sure it didn't accidentally collect child porn or other illicit images?

Absolutely! There was an community of moderators that came by the storage room every day to review the latest intake. There was much discussion. Lunch was served.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#500

Post by waterhouse »

jaegerpicker wrote: post #207
MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #7

what interests me is: how do people maintain their integrity in such a foul environment? I mean if you can't look yourself in the mirror then how do you keep on creating anything?

This assumes that everyone views integrity in the same way. Not everyone views sex as a sacred rite that a lot of cultures make it out to be. Regardless of my views or your views using sex for gain isn't wrong or immoral to everyone. I don't support or think it's right for anyone to have no other option but some people would argue that having the option is better than not and I shouldn't enforce my morals on them. No…

Arguably there are two issues here. The first is viewing sex as sacred or not. But if you consider it not sacred, if you think of giving someone sex as roughly equivalent to giving them money, then that brings us to the next issue: Bribery. If the claims are true, then essentially you're expected to bribe people (with sex) who act as industry gatekeepers, or else find it much more difficult to progress in your career. That would be called "corruption"—and to not want to be part of that is indeed a manifestation of "integrity".

Now, one could come up with alternate motivations. "So, let's see just how dedicated you are to your career" ... Oh lord, I can't finish that with a straight face. I mean, if someone does think sex is at least mildly sacred, then being willing to do it for career purposes would show dedication (or desperation), but there are probably lots of other ways to measure that, not to mention that you might end up selecting less for dedication and more for sexual blaséness.

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