Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#741

Post by tinyhouse » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 11:31 PM UTC

haswell wrote: post #577

tinyhouse wrote: post #215

I work in big tech. Not Google. This is one of the best blog posts I have read about big tech. I agree with most things. The most important one is the wrong optimization for promotion. People would happily push something complicated and unnecessary to production just because it can help them to get promoted later on (by showing fake impact). The other thing I strongly agree with is working on things that don't add va…

> The other thing I strongly agree with is working on things that don't add value to users but rather to follow company guidelines. At face value, what you're agreeing with makes sense, and I'm a strong believer in questioning / re-affirming the "why" before taking on big projects. But while the premise seems correct, his one example does not. FTA: > we have an extremely long project that consumed many of our best en…

I agree the specific example he used is not a great one. I think you nailed it. It seems his main problem was spending a lot of time and resources on a problem that most likely wouldn't exist in Waze the startup. It's not the kind of problems he wants to spend time on, which is valid.

In this particular example he even acknowledged that it was important. But it's not always the case and then I can understand the frustration. As you said "question the rationale for doing something".

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#742

Post by jariel » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 11:32 PM UTC

oblio wrote: post #688

jariel wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"made them a serious competitor again?" They were making money hand over fist, massive growth in revenues almost ever year under Ballmer. [1] Which part of that massive money train is 'not serious competitor'? [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/267805/microsofts-global...

Some of the best quarters for Nokia & co were just before they went under so that's not a solid reference point, unfortunately.

It's a solid reference point because we now have a lot of history to look back upon, and those revenues were from foundational businesses.

Satya's changes have been positive but most of the money he is making is due to Gates + Ballmer.

I think he's good but we'll have to wait to see the full picture.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#743

Post by jariel » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 11:34 PM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #609

jariel wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Microsoft became almost irrelevant under Ballmer or was at least trending that way. Nadella’s turn around is almost miraculous " This is definitely not true. Ballmer increased revenues massively, and launched a slew of new products (XBox, MS Live, cloud etc.) and realigned the company. Have a look [1] Nadella has done nothing approaching that level of importance yet, so far, he is riding the wave that was handed to…

Arguably the stock price is a prediction of future success, not current revenue. The fact that it sagged under Ballmer and is now up under Nadella aligns with how I'm framing things. I suppose you could argue that's entirely PR, but I don't think that's the case. People thought MSFT under Ballmer was trending down, now they think it's trending up. I'd argue that's due to strategic shifts that happened once Ballmer le…

That's a good point but it wasn't really 'Ballmer' - it was the existential changes in the industry.

I believe if Ballmer had of hung on for a few more years, that change would have happened eventually.

Investors eventually would realize 'This is not just Windows and Office'.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#744

Post by sneak » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 11:41 PM UTC

serverholic wrote: post #369

sneak wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be privilege to have a job, any job, that comes with perks like included food, or healthcare, even if those are part of one's negotiated compensation package.

Then you're just asking to be taken advantage of. You are more important than your employer. Therefore you should be looking to extract as much value from your employer as possible. If you don't think your employer is doing the same then you're just naive. Google isn't catering food out of the goodness of their heart. It's a calculated cost-benefit analysis to attract and retain top talent. Edit: It's also a tactic t…

I also think it's a privilege to be born healthy, to have access to clean water, et c, and I don't think that makes me "asking to be taken advantage of".

I don't for a second think that Google is doing anything out of the goodness of their hearts, just that most people's jobs have no perks and few or no benefits whatsoever.

Anyone working anywhere that pays them a six figure salary and provides food and healthcare is pretty fortunate, all things considered here on Earth. It's nothing to do with Google.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#745

Post by nonameiguess » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 11:41 PM UTC

tasuki wrote: post #736

nonameiguess wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy is deluded about the meaning of his product. I was a Waze user. It saved me a few minutes here and there getting to work, and that was worth the $0 it cost me. If he ever forced an employee to miss even a single kid's soccer game to save me two minutes getting to work, though, I no longer feel that is worth it. I spent most of the past five years working on projects for the US geointelligence enterprise wher…

> I was in the Army for 8 years fighting wars. Was that worth it? Do you consider that superior to working on trifling conveniences?

Not really, but I was young and stupid. Whether it ends up being worth it depends on how it works out for you. I ended up with significant and permanent spine injuries and I'm lucky as hell I landed in a knowledge industry where I can work from bed, otherwise I might not be able to work at all. It'd be nice to not spend the last 50 years of my life with a partially non-functional body, though.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#746

Post by voidhorse » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 11:42 PM UTC

Nice read. While the entitlement and firing philosophy definitely are hot-button topics, what struck me was the implication that things like data/tech regulation are “noise”.

I disagree. Having well thought out, auditable processes around how you handle data and user privacy is also part of focusing on the user and also part of delivering a good product. Sure you might want to focus on shipping “value” with bells, whistles, and features, but the old-school mentality that one can ignore these other aspects of technology and move quickly and cavalierly is arguably exactly why the push for regulation is so hard right now—the pendulum is swinging the other way precisely because this myopic view of things is so dangerous.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#747

Post by pid_0 » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 11:47 PM UTC

jeffbee wrote: post #602

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #363

9 years @ Google, and I too came from a company acquired by Google. (In my case, Google did not keep our product or tech stack around, so.) And yes, I can say many Googlers are entitled. It's a fair descriptor. And the pace of work is slower than a startup. In general. And I too have many criticisms of Google. But. Google has entirely different revenue constraints. It can afford an entirely different way of working.…

I've worked at 8 different companies and none of them could even hold a candle to Google's pace of work. Everything just works. The quota system works, the identity and authorization system works, observability works, the build and release system works. You can be a productive engineer at Google on day 2 if you read the codelabs on day 1. Nobody at Google has ever needed to have their manager email the Jira admin to…

Wow and yet, they can't really build a single profitable product!

Emphasis on single product as they tend to have 5 apps that do the same thing until they kill off the popular ones.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#748

Post by greedo » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 11:51 PM UTC

modeless wrote: post #522

dwohnitmok wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not invalid by itself as long as everyone knows that the game is purely transactional. But it isn't fair to expect employee "passion" when their own continued employment is contingent on whether management thinks they're still necessary. This still seems to hold no?

> when their own continued employment is contingent on whether management thinks they're still necessary Talk about entitlement. You think that when a company hires you, that should be a commitment to employ you forever regardless of need? Passion can come from your own investment in the success of the business, through equity and through the opportunities that come to productive employees at growing companies, both…

No, but if you treat your employees as "resources" and commodities, then you can't be surprised when they don't have "passion" for the job and try to extract as much money from you with as little work as possible. This isn't rocket science, yet startups and startup "gurus" continually miss this.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#749

Post by soheil » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 11:52 PM UTC

JohnCarmack wrote: post #586

I can certainly see a lot of parallels with Oculus / Facebook. Perhaps unusually, I actually wanted FB to impress itself more strongly on Oculus post acquisition because, frankly, Oculus was a bit of a mess. Instead, Oculus was given an enormous amount of freedom for many years. Personally, nobody ever told me what to do, even though I was willing to "shut up and soldier" if necessary -- they bought that capability!…

I don't think you can separate people who really care about their job vs. people who really care about the company they work for and the mission it's on. Part of the problem could be that you loved the job but not the mission of the company, in which case there is almost no outcome that leads to a happy ending. In other words if the company has a worthy mission it almost doesn't matter what the job is.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#750

Post by pid_0 » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 11:53 PM UTC

guyzero wrote: post #451

jrockway wrote: post #290

He sounds kind of toxic and out of touch, and didn't really mention why he stayed so long despite that being the title of the article. You know someone is Up To Something when they rant about HR restricting their speech. It's weird to me that he's now a free agent, rants about how people complained that "I used a four letter word, my analogy was not PC, my language was not PG", and yet doesn't indulge in his blog pos…

At the risk of being not politically correct myself, I think there are significant cultural gaps between the west coast American standard and people from Israel (Bardin is Isralei). With the caveat that this is my experience only, Israelis are more blunt, direct and often openly critical vs Americans, especially Californians. They're often right and all the ones I've worked with have been very smart, but the way a me…

Yep this is true. California (and if we are being honest, liberal) types will do anything and everything to avoid any kind of conflict. I can't stand it.

Israelis are straight to the point without the typical American BS. I have been on a conference call with Israelis and Americans and every 15 seconds the Israelis would go on mute to complain how stupid the Americans sounded. They were speaking a lot but effectively saying nothing of value.

Say what you mean, mean what you say.