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Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

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711–720 of 840 posts

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He seems like the kind of CEO I would love to work for. It seems like he tries to care about his users a lot, and wants his team to as well. Also, the "offensive things" in his talks were only offensive to a small vocal minority by his own account.

> offensive to a small vocal minority I really don't see how this is an excuse. it's like saying "black people are a minority in the US so who cares if they say they are oppressed"

This analogy is a bit careless.

You can't just throw BLM around, or we'll end up with stuff like: "So yeah, this code is bad and I'm the only one who thinks so, but not caring about my opinion is like not caring about oppression of black people!".

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#712

9 years @ Google, and I too came from a company acquired by Google. (In my case, Google did not keep our product or tech stack around, so.) And yes, I can say many Googlers are entitled. It's a fair descriptor. And the pace of work is slower than a startup. In general. And I too have many criticisms of Google. But. Google has entirely different revenue constraints. It can afford an entirely different way of working.…

I've worked at 8 different companies and none of them could even hold a candle to Google's pace of work. Everything just works. The quota system works, the identity and authorization system works, observability works, the build and release system works. You can be a productive engineer at Google on day 2 if you read the codelabs on day 1. Nobody at Google has ever needed to have their manager email the Jira admin to…

This is due to Google's over-reliance on peer reviews during perf. As the result, programs avoid poor customer satisfaction at all costs. This also means that they are incredibly risk averse and are no longer innovative. Innovation means repeated failure and failure isn't treated well come perf time.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I don't get the unhealthy interest in other people's private life. As long as your job is to get work done, and not cover duty station at time xyz, complaining about when people choose to take a break is really weird and invasive. In my experience people who are permitted flexible work schedules and take advantage of them tend to be the better employees.

He was complaining about his inability to schedule meetings because of the 11:00am spot. Even in the most flexible of environments, lunch is usually off-limits, 1:00pm is tricky because people can be late due to lunch and this 11:00am yoga essentially means a nearly 3 hour block with difficult scheduling constraints. I don't agree with a lot he has to say but this one kind of makes sense. Routing un-availbility at 9:…

Sure but there are all kinds of reasons people couldn't make an 11am meeting, even being in other meetings. The only reason it bothered him is because the employee in question was doing something non work related.

Mostly don't you sit down with your team and figure out good meeting times and bad meeting times? Did employee say 11am is a great time for meetings then go get an 11am hobby? Then sure employee is a jackass.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5+ yrs @ Google, Google is my 5th company. Google has all the building blocks for great backend services and front-end development and, if you know where to look and have some experience with them, you can build a rock-solid product in Politics/consensus building is where the real roadblocks lie in Google, and presumably other large companies. Trying to make high-level product & technical decisions when you have 10 s…

Consensus Building really sums up the issue. There's no clear decision maker at Google. There is no Tim Cook or Jeff Bezos. Instead it is a collection of teams in a department. It is like a democracy, but differs in that you need every single team leader onboard to get anything done vs say 51% of the "vote".

This is far less true than you make it seem, I think. I can think of executives who are very clear decision makers in particular contexts.

But for most engineers, most of the time, you're working well below the level of those executives, and especially if you're engaging with shared infrastructure, the executive who is the final decision maker is Sundar.

For example, I am involved in an issue where 3 ICs whose levels are between 4 and 6 (really this is a simplification), are engaged in dealing with solving a problem. These three ICs are in 3 different PAs, reporting indirectly to 3 different SVPs, who join up at Sundar. It isn't worth it to have the CEO spend time refereeing this decision.

Ultimately this was resolved at the director level, by consensus building, because it would reflect badly on every one of those directors if they failed to resolve it and had to escalate to SVPs or CEOs about something that is, on the company scale, trivial (to be clear this is still a thing that is multiple engineer-years of work, but it's still Google-trivial).

I expect the same is true at Amazon or Apple. Cook and Bezos aren't making every decision. VPs and Directors deal with small potatoes, and most things are small potatoes. The difference may be organizationally that those companies are more siloed and so leaves from different trees interact less often. But this friction also is often intentional and has value (SRE explicitly not reporting up through normal product eng ladders, for example).

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#715
post #99

This is an amazing post - it describes exactly how bad manager looks like and what kind of expectations does he have from his employees. No emergency PTO (despite being a benefit), ability to just get rid of people who don't suit him, cursing at people, not having a proper work/life balance. It just keeps on giving. And all for what? A mapping application having features which really don't save lives 99% of the time.

This guy is something else. That entitlement section was an eye opener. That stuff should be the norm. Felt like guilt tripping people at one of the most wealthy companies in the world because they don't have a job that treats them poorly. Companies make a lot of money it should be spent on the people that make that money for the company.

> That stuff should be the norm.

Really? I'd rather you just paid me more, so I can use the money how I'd like, instead of coddling me with loads of benefits.

And then there's this: companies don't provide all this stuff out of the goodness of their hearts. They provide it because it means they can squeeze more out of you. Again, I might be able to get on board with that if it's a company I really want to work for, but I'd still rather they just pay me more instead.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#716
post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people who Really Care about their work with the Just A Job crowd These aren't discrete categories. There are a lot of people who care about their work and also recognize that at the end of the day, it is a job, and the reality is that they can only play a role in shaping the outcome, not dictate it per their vision. Also, depending on the job, the team, the project, and the product, people can go from one of those…

This point hit home for me: > but people that have experienced being embedded with Really Care workers are going to be appalled at the relative effectiveness. Unless you've experienced the Really Care type of team and situation, it's difficult to understand. I don't mean any disrespect to the Just A Job people. There is nothing wrong with keeping your head down, getting your work done, and checking it at the door whe…

It is disastrously to Care when you are surrounded by an army that doesn’t.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#717
Regarding the compensation section, at a large company you're either underpaid or overpaid. The ones who overwhelmingly create the stock growth through their work are drastically underpaid. Everyone else feeds off of it and is basically overpaid. That's why its a great place to rest and vest.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's giving a few examples for work-life balance and I have completely different feelings about - from the 11 AM Yoga class (pretty ridiculous IMO) to taking a personal day (reasonable, people need their day off, maybe the personal day is for an urgent medical check-up?) to working during the weekend (unless the entire service is down and I'm the oncall, it can wait).

The 11 AM Yoga class does not sound ridiculous to me precisely because of the nature of tech work: we don't need to all be working together at the exact same time, as opposed to most other jobs. Want to trade an hour in the middle of the day on a Tuesday with showing up an hour early Wednesday? Do it. What's the problem?

I was watching Jurassic Park (1993) the other day, and I got a kick out of the software engineer rambling about a compile taking a long time as an excuse for going on a break

Also software engineer singular, I guess an expense was spared after all

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#719

> It is practically impossible to fire someone for the basic reason that you don't need this role any more or there is a better person out there or just plain old - you are not doing a great job. This neuters managers and does not lead to great teams, driven by mission, pushing each other to do better. > I was the weirdo who wanted to push things fast and expected that some level of personal sacrifice when needed. I…

This is Noam Bardin - I, obviously, don't agree with you. Age has nothing to do with anything (we were all 40 year olds when we started Waze). Its about skills and attitude. Not everyone is right for every role as things change. Employees leave companies because they hate their boss or team, not because of compensation or free food. Having the wrong people on a team can be lethal. I updated the post to try and clarify that its not about age - thanks for pointing it out

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#720
post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I somewhat sympathize with those living in a small apartment who used to walk, take a shuttle bus, take the subway, etc. to work where they were fed 5 days a week or more--and now they're stuck in their small apartments with most restaurants closed and facing the prospect of maybe having to move to a bigger place. So one can choose to interpret complaints about meal expensing in that vein. That said, in general, at l…

My apartment in SF does not have a kitchen. Food provided by the company helped me get by! With no car, and only a handful of restaurant options within 1 mile, it's not the easiest to get by without a company cafeteria. I can sympathize with why many people would like to be able to expense food.

What does expensing have to do with your situation though? You seem to have an issue with access to food rather than how much it costs. How does the company giving you some more money help with that?
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