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Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

reuters.com

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Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#681

Post by ChrisLomont »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #35
ChrisLomont wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other stores from competing. How does this differ from "any programmable electronics should allow sideloading"? I don't see that as a very workable solution, legally, practically, or even in a pro-consumer sense. It would certainly drive the cost of most electronics up incredibly as all devices would need to produce APIs and upgradeability.

The bar is simple: If they allow third party apps at all, they're already providing those APIs, and must allow competitive use of them.

And that will be the end of third party apps. Apple will hire devs to make apps, and then you're not third party, and no more royalties....

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#683

Post by Dma54rhs »

cmdli wrote: post #596
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How you can argue for less software freedoms, while paying a 30% tax for any app you distribute, is honestly mind boggling to me. >On the one hand, Apple is acting as a store curator and demanding that its customers be made aware of tracking software. This sounds like marketing. Apple is limiting what apps their customers have access to. I wonder if you would make the same argument if Apple starts blocking websites?

As a user, I'm free to buy Android if I want to. I buy iPhones specifically because software developers are forced to go through Apple's more strict guidelines (see the Apple/Facebook fight for a recent example of why I personally like it). I can trust the software I use much more on Apple's platform. I want to have the freedom to buy and use such a platform, and Apple wants the freedom to sell and maintain such a pl…

I'm sure many preferred internet provider and railway cartels too because they didn't want other people to fiddle with the system. When sideloading will be enabled you're more than welcome to stay in the walled garden, but you can't dictate how other people want to use their devices.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#684

Post by cwhiz »

kaba0 wrote: post #663
cwhiz wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How you can argue for less software freedoms, while paying a 30% tax for any app you distribute, is honestly mind boggling to me. Why do you care what my preferences are? If you don't care for the iOS model, you should go buy an Android. Apple doesn't have a monopoly. I prefer the Apple model because I want these restrictions. I want apps to be blocked from cross-app tracking. I want apps to have to explicitly spell…

I’m sorry but it an astonishingly stupid take. Apple and android DO have a duopoly, and it is bad for every phone owner. Also, allowing me to install whatever app I want with eg a hidden setting like enable developer mode will not hinder your walled garden at all. It won’t case the Apple Store to disappear, simply other alternatives will have a place. And yes your last point: there is no good choice. So that’s your s…

>I’m sorry but it an astonishingly stupid take.

To you.

>Apple and android DO have a duopoly, and it is bad for every phone owner.

Google owns over 85% of the worldwide smartphone market. I agree that we need more competition. This competition should come from breaking Google/Android into 4 pieces, and then we'll have 5 companies with 15-25% market.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#685

Post by africanboy »

lowbloodsugar wrote: post #500
zionic wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt any significant volume of people who sell their iPhones and go android if Apple allowed other app stores.

But the reverse is true. If there were only Android like phones, with shitty malware, and battery issues, and fifty different app stores for any given genre, and Apple launched the iPhone, millions would jump ship to Apple.

just like Betamax beat the inferior VHS...

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#686

Post by Dma54rhs »

minhazm wrote: post #299
throw_away892 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First, manual APK install has to be enabled in obscure settings that come with a "scary" warning. Don't see how this is necessarily a bad thing. It's a general security notification. > Then they can't provide auto-updates but require a manual confirmation for each version update. Again, how is this a deterrent? How many times a day do you have to accept the new changes? We've already established that the official s…

Arguably the market has already decided the behavior they want by buying iPhones in the first place. Apple didn't suddenly change their behavior. This is how the app store has always behaved. Everyone had that information available to them prior to making the purchase. How can you be sure that Apple customers don't actually want a walled garden with a single app store that is tightly controlled by Apple? After all if…

And if you didn't like railway cartel back at the time you could have used a horse instead. Wonderful thing about laws is that we can make the companies behave the way we want.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#687

Post by zepto »

chc wrote: post #556
JakeTheAndroid wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that it's entirely fair to say there is literally a single competitor. While Android is a single platform, you're free to get it from a range of vendors that all add their own flavor to Android. Some are really locked down, some are root by default. So you actually have a range of competing platforms even if they are powered by only 2 OSes. And in the case of both devices (Apple and Android) you can stil…

This argument doesn't pass the "Would it work just as well as a defense of late-'90s Microsoft?" test. I would be willing to concede most of the facts you brought up, but none of that in any way mitigates the amount of control Apple holds. Nobody's saying it's Apple's fault that they're in a duopoly position in the phone space, but that doesn't absolve them of the responsibility that position holds either. What is Ap…

> This argument doesn't pass the "Would it work just as well as a defense of late-'90s Microsoft?" test.

What does this mean? Late 90’s Microsoft had more than 85% of the desktop PC market.

Early 2020’s Microsoft still has more than 85% of the Desktop PC market.

There is simply no comparison.

Apple doesn’t control the market. They don’t have anything like a monopoly.

They do have products that a lot of people think are category leading, but that isn’t the same thing as having ‘control’.

They also make a lot of profit, because people are willing to pay more for those products. But this is true of companies who focus on quality, regardless of scale.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#688

Post by jedberg »

FlownScepter wrote: post #198
kevingadd wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the past US regulators have not agreed with your reasoning here. They broke up the original big telephone companies, for example.

A quick Google says iOS' market share is 14%. I don't understand this position at all. Google is by far and away the market leader. Their ecosystem is free and you can do just about anything in it. Their Play store's standards are utterly bare bones. The devices are cheaper. If what you want is an open source (ish) platform that you can hack on, modify, install software yourself, whatever, all of that is available to…

You're looking at this backwards. While their market share might be 14%, they control 66% of app revenue.

As a developer I'm restricted from accessing that 66%. THAT is why I want an open platform. Access to those consumers.

That has nothing to do with my choice of platform. It has to do with access to a large market which I am being restricted from.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#689

Post by kaba0 »

suifbwish wrote: post #662
aboringusername wrote: post #11

It feels a bit hypocritical when Apple laughs at FB for complaining about their new tracking pop-up yet when the shoe's on the other foot and Apple may actually have to compete on its own platform they double down and defend their right to be judge, jury and executioner. Apple competing with third party app stores on iOS is going to be amazing. No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other st…

The thing is if I wanted or cared about that I would get one of those phones. The consumer gets to decide which phone they use and one of the reasons I like the iPhone is actually the difficulty in adding 3rd party crapware. If I needed a phone that I can install stuff on from unverified markets I would get an android and do it completely separately from my iPhone. I like that Apple is an appliance that is what it’s…

That’s the thing, there is no such phone. And frankly, there will not be more mobile platforms because even the current two is already much for companies to develop for. Free market doesn’t work that way. Linux phones might rise, but only if they gain a good android compat layer.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#690

Post by zepto »

dkonofalski wrote: post #271
dijit wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I don't buy this at all. iTunes library (at least for Books and Music) is DRM-free and has been from an early stage (though _did_ launch with DRM). I've had great success in migrating my purchased items back and forth from linux with absolutely no issue. However now they're using streaming and I'm unable to easily "own" any music anymore... or at the very least it takes you off of the easy path.

Apple wanted to launch iTunes as DRM-free but wasn't able to negotiate the licensing for it. The content providers were the ones that made the DRM a requirement.

Yes, and then Apple convinced them to go DRM free.

iTunes has been DRM free for more than a decade now.

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