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Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

reuters.com

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Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#611

Post by lsh123 »

dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

There is a very simple solution - no App Store at all! I can download and install anything I want on my computer. I can use Google or bing or DuckDuckGo or whatever to find it. Why do you need App Store in the first place?

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#613

Post by la_oveja »

MR4D wrote: post #571
015a wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As opposed to Developers not having the choice to distribute their own app stores? There is no solution to this problem that benefits everyone perfectly. There are only solutions which are better than the solution we have today. Actually, there is one near-perfect solution; Apple reduces their cut to ~5% and stops enforcing their insane rules. But that's not happening. You, and many others in this thread, are blaming…

> Actually, there is one near-perfect solution... So your perfect solution is to recreate the mess that's on the PC??? I don't think you understand - we don't want that. That's why people like me, my wife, my kids, my parents, my relatives, and most of my friends buy an iPhone - so we don't have to go through that hell. The number of people who buy a iphone for sheer simplicity is enormous. My friend's Android has a…

Buying a phone just for a game is the solution instead of actually being able to install whatever you want. Are you even thinking before hitting "reply"?

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#614

Post by jrockway »

dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

It is annoying how every PC game company tries to be a social network and persistent advertising daemon. But a launcher is not necessary to keep an app updated. Look at Chrome -- you install it, and it stays up to date. Blizzard could do that for their games and Epic could do that for their games, but they want extra money from putting ads in a launcher. (Actually, they seem to always be "house ads", so they aren't really making money, they're saving money. But at a Fortune 500, saving money is basically the same as making money.)

In-game chat could be XMPP or a more modern alternative, too, and then you wouldn't need a separate IM client for each ecosystem.

Finally, I don't think anyone really dislikes the app stores themselves. They are annoyed that they have to pay a 30% tax. If it were 3%, I doubt anyone would be complaining. Apple took a big gamble by being as restrictive as they are -- if they win, they get free money for doing nothing; if they lose, they get $0. I think history will show that they lose; app developers have caught on. But, I could be wrong.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#615

Post by jquery »

SCHiM wrote: post #197
dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

You install those yourself you know. I'd rather have a choice than not. I feel your pain in the sense that that I think user UX will take a hit, but I think that's less important than breaking the monopoly of the current app store. For example, I can't find apps with pornography or other types of things the high overlords at apple or Google have deemed inappropriate for me to have. That's bad. Apparently apps like Ma…

>I'd rather have a choice than not.

Then get an Android if you like that experience?

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#616

Post by ballenf »

015a wrote: post #497
BrianGragg wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the choice is taken away from you though. Just like he said with the game market. If you want to play Game A, you go and download/install Game A's publishing app store. If you want to then play Game B, rinse and repeat. You will be forced to use so many different app stores and won't have a choice to NOT use their app store "IF" it progresses like it has on the desktop. No proof it will/won't either.

As opposed to Developers not having the choice to distribute their own app stores? There is no solution to this problem that benefits everyone perfectly. There are only solutions which are better than the solution we have today. Actually, there is one near-perfect solution; Apple reduces their cut to ~5% and stops enforcing their insane rules. But that's not happening. You, and many others in this thread, are blaming…

As a developer I just don’t like the precedent that if I’m too successful at creating a great product that I therefore lose control over the very qualities of my product that made it successful.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#617

Post by hajile »

parasubvert wrote: post #396
mdoms wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lat…

Most iPhone users do not want to open multiple stores. We like and want Apple's curation. This is why Epic's position is a very difficult anti-trust argument: Apple is aligned with what many customers actually want.

The creation of multiple stores doesn't mean you have to use them...

Just vote with your wallet and stick with that store. Android has a half-dozen stores available, but how many people are using stores outside of the official one?

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#618

Post by wayoutthere »

015a wrote: post #497
BrianGragg wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the choice is taken away from you though. Just like he said with the game market. If you want to play Game A, you go and download/install Game A's publishing app store. If you want to then play Game B, rinse and repeat. You will be forced to use so many different app stores and won't have a choice to NOT use their app store "IF" it progresses like it has on the desktop. No proof it will/won't either.

As opposed to Developers not having the choice to distribute their own app stores? There is no solution to this problem that benefits everyone perfectly. There are only solutions which are better than the solution we have today. Actually, there is one near-perfect solution; Apple reduces their cut to ~5% and stops enforcing their insane rules. But that's not happening. You, and many others in this thread, are blaming…

You can’t have both a secure platform and a platform where anyone can arbitrarily run code without a gatekeeper.

Apple is that gatekeeper because I, the user, want them to be. Apple has shown me, as a user, that the trade off they make between giving developers open access and protecting users from malware to be a sane one.

Does it make it harder to monetize an app? Totally, but for many iPhone users, that’s a feature, not a bug. The developers are not apple’s customer, so they’re not building a product around their needs — which we honestly need more of in tech. If I felt more strongly about Apple being a gatekeeper on its own platform, I might use Android in some flavor. But I just want a phone that works and has the apps I want to use without a bunch of garbage cluttering it up.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#619

Post by threeseed »

iknowstuff wrote: post #388
dkonofalski wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may have but the rest of the world did so with a lot of hand-wringing and a boatload of viruses, toolbars, malware, and everything else. As someone who has worked in IT and in tech support, I get and agree with what Apple has done.

FYI, the iOS sandboxing model is the innovation behind the security of iOS. It is separate from the notion of having an app store. Apps would be just as restricted from accessing your data and modifying the OS as they are through their own store. So this argument is wrong but will be peddled by Apple for sure. PC operating systems had viruses because of the non-restrictive, unsandboxed access their APIs gave to every…

Objective-C based dynamic dispatch allows you to call private, internal APIs from your code effectively bypassing the iOS sandbox.

App Store review process specifically checks for this.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#620

Post by hajile »

drstewart wrote: post #519
munificent wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say you had the choice between: 1. Buy game X from Apple's app store for $39.00. 2. Buy game X from X's own app store for $30.00. Would you install X's app store then? Would you at least want the option of choosing that path?

Except we all know the real option will be to buy game X from X's own app store for $39.00, so the only thing the consumer has gained is extra friction in exchange for the developer pocketing a larger share.

But most people won't be bothered to use other stores (just like most Android users don't use other stores).

The real solution there is forcing digital sales to include a perpetual license to the software independent of the platform. The current digital monopoly culture is against the overwhelming majority of citizens.

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