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'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

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Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#221

Post by nostromo »

csharptwdec19 wrote: post #198

I'll be bold and say it's the media industry has a problem. I remember family members having problems/reservations with Weinstein's behavior back in the 90's . People like Corey Feltman have been speaking up for years. But nobody cares because we're getting good cinema and TV, right? A huge part of these industries are based on 'favors' and 'networking'. Toss in the theory that you have a higher-than-baseline level o…

Roman Polanski won an Oscar after pleading guilty to drugging and raping a 13 year old girl.

Look at all these vile people applauding this villain, who couldn't accept his Oscar because he fled the country. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXnNOBj26lk

In some ways I think we may have over responded (Aziz Ansari is not Harvey Weinstein), but it was shocking what behavior people were excusing from the powerful even in recent decades.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#222

Post by fuzzer37 »

timthorn wrote: post #185
tchalla wrote: post #11

> However he left the music business in the mid-90s to become a teacher and is now president of Saint Louis School in his native Hawaii. Interesting career choice :)

My chemistry teacher was in a top ten pop group in decades past. Could be a more common career ladder than you might think.

Wow that sounds super interesting. Did he have any cool stories?

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#224

Post by golemiprague »

lostgame wrote: post #153
known wrote: post #141

It's there in IT industry also; Girls silently suffer / quit jobs :(

While it is there, being female and in both industries myself I have to say that it's like comparing a cup of water to a bucket in terms of the sheer amount of sexual abuse that goes on in the music industry. And I say that as a victim of IT workplace sexual assault, and I unfortunately did exactly as you posted. :( The music industry is harrowing. It's not to discount the very real trauma myself and others have gone…

IT was always normal, it didn't make any "progress" except from the general "progress" that the whole society did. It wasn't different to any other industry 40 years ago and not today. The only grief women had is that there were not enough of them, which is still the case but the ones who worked in the industry whether as programmers or other peripheral jobs were treated exactly like they would in a law office or a bank or other jobs with more women.

The funny thing is that the whole agenda causing women to think as if this industry is so bad was pushed by the actual bad industry, the media, film and music industry. An industry which let hip hop artists say the most horrible things about women for years, that actually raped and traded success for sexual favours as a common trading coin. They misdirected the fire to IT and mid America and everybody swallowed it hook line and sinker.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#225

Post by macksd »

mathgorges wrote: post #194
mensetmanusman wrote: post #61

The internet is enabling a new norm in reducing the cost of calling out behavior. Some of this is good, e.g. calling out sexual abuse. Some of this is bad, e.g. cancel culture that has no means of forgiveness.

I've seen this take quite a bit lately with respect to cancel culture and I'm a bit confused about it. Since HN is amazing, I'm hoping someone here can help me understand without it turning into a flamewar. I don't understand how "cancel culture" is substantially different from what we used to call "boycotts", just with the internet for more social lubrication. I suppose theres a risk that the allegations at the cent…

I see the difference as being that boycotting is a means of protesting a specific policy or practice in the hopes that an organization changes.

Cancel culture is wanting to punish a person (or virtue signal) for something in the past. Maybe they deserve it - I get it more when there's a history of credible charges of sexual assault or something (but then, I'd prefer they be tried in court and punished via the legal system). But the bar seems to have lowered and now you get fired for a tweet people don't like. And maybe people have the right to do it, but that doesn't mean it's always a good idea. If we're not careful it takes over the role of rule of law in our society and will do a worse job of it.

In the recent case of Gina Carano specifically, I don't think her tweet is remotely offensive to the level of being fired, and the effect will be that she's given a voice and seen as a martyr by people who have far more extreme opinions than what she's voiced previously.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#226

Post by mathgorges »

jimkleiber wrote: post #201
mathgorges wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen this take quite a bit lately with respect to cancel culture and I'm a bit confused about it. Since HN is amazing, I'm hoping someone here can help me understand without it turning into a flamewar. I don't understand how "cancel culture" is substantially different from what we used to call "boycotts", just with the internet for more social lubrication. I suppose theres a risk that the allegations at the cent…

I think one thing that I've noticed is that defamation laws seem really hard to enforce on people speaking on the internet, especially when one can hide behind a pseudonym or straight anonymity. I guess overall for "cancel culture", I see it similar to boycotts, but often boycotts edit are /edit of a specific individual, and also without the stipulation that the boycott will stop if a behavior changes. AFAIK, the civ…

Thats a fair take.

I hadn't considered the sort-of agenda that boycotts tend to have.

I bet a lot of cancels also have a salient agenda, but since the movement is so democratized it gets lost in the noise. Just a gut feeling.

_____

You lost me a bit on:

> Much of "cancel culture" I guess wants an organization's policy to change, but often that policy is to excommunicate an individual...

I've been conceptualizing the cancel as individuals choosing to not support creators, but this makes it sound like theres a third-party involved. A sibling comment mentioned people repeatedly calling Disney.. am I missing something here?

_____

I've been involved in one cancel before, so heres the frame of reference I'm coming from:

I like an artist named DojaKat.

A while ago a video surfaced of her singing a song with a racial slur in it.

I saw the video and said to myself "Oh man, I don't want to support a racist artist, this sucks, but I don't think I should stream her on Spotify anymore (In my mind, that was the cancel).

Some weeks later, DojaKat released a video in which she apologized, talked about how much she's grown as a person, and promised to do better. It seemed sincere to me, so I added her work back to my Spotify playlists.

Am I correctly interpreting that as a cancel?

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#227

Post by [deleted] »

im3w1l wrote: post #68
thn-gap wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thousands of employees devote already 1/3 of their life doing a work they despise just so they can avoid starving. Getting literally fucked to save 40 years of bad work doesn't sound too bad.

It's a race to the bottom though. Once one person does it, everyone else has to do it too, just so they don't fall behind. In the end you are back to where you started, except you have to sell yourself in addition.

[deleted]

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#228

Post by armchairhacker »

mathgorges wrote: post #194
mensetmanusman wrote: post #61

The internet is enabling a new norm in reducing the cost of calling out behavior. Some of this is good, e.g. calling out sexual abuse. Some of this is bad, e.g. cancel culture that has no means of forgiveness.

I've seen this take quite a bit lately with respect to cancel culture and I'm a bit confused about it. Since HN is amazing, I'm hoping someone here can help me understand without it turning into a flamewar. I don't understand how "cancel culture" is substantially different from what we used to call "boycotts", just with the internet for more social lubrication. I suppose theres a risk that the allegations at the cent…

IMO the main issue with cancel culture is when it targets people who are innocent or gives unreasonable punishments for small mistakes. Those being cancelled are tried in the court of social media, where critics attack without evidence or even knowing the accusations. The accused' friends and employers fear being associated with the accused, even if they ultimately get cleared of any wrongdoing, and they can sue for defamation but it won't necessarily work out.

People have gotten kicked out of colleges for using racist words in text messages. People have been fired for their jobs for messages taken out of context. Non-public individuals start getting death threats online and they get called out in the streets, for small mistakes or things taen out of context.

A separate issue is that people sometimes get cancelled for things that happened a long time ago, sometimes even when they were still young. The issue here is that people change. It would be like boycotting a company because 20 years ago they exploited workers, regardless of whatever they're doing today. It's a really grey area.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#229

Post by austincheney »

csharptwdec19 wrote: post #198

I'll be bold and say it's the media industry has a problem. I remember family members having problems/reservations with Weinstein's behavior back in the 90's . People like Corey Feltman have been speaking up for years. But nobody cares because we're getting good cinema and TV, right? A huge part of these industries are based on 'favors' and 'networking'. Toss in the theory that you have a higher-than-baseline level o…

The example that comes to my mind is Roman Polanski. He fled the country while under investigation for child molestation. It was shocking how much other celebrities came defending him over the years. He is a child molester and fugitive. It’s just bizarre.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#230

Post by evgen »

alistairSH wrote: post #27
FriedrichN wrote: post #3

I would be surprised if it wasn't the case. Industries like these have too many 'king makers' and people idolize the established figures too much. It's basically the same mechanism by which the abuse is facilitated in closed religious communities.

And US Gymnastics and other sports.

Currently there are major scandals in France around coaches and team officials sexually abusing kids in swimming and figure skating. It is not just a US thing...
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