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Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

reuters.com

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Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#541

Post by gpanders »

enragedcacti wrote: post #476
onion2k wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate the fact I have to use Apple TV to watch Servant, Disney+ to watch The Mandalorian, Netflix to watch Stranger Things, and Amazon Prime Video to watch The Boys, and HBO to watch Game of Thrones, and so on. I'd much rather all of those other companies gave Apple a 30% cut of their revenue.

Funnily enough the new Chromecast with Google TV is a better experience for you than Apple TV. All of the services except Apple TV that you mentioned are searchable and playable from the home screen and Google doesn't have to take 30% of their revenue to make it happen.

I am not sure what the GP is referring to, but the Apple TV does exactly this.

On my Apple TV I can search for shows on HBO, Amazon, ESPN, etc. All of my recently watched shows, regardless of streaming service/channel, show up on the main "TV" page. I can use Siri to search across all services, e.g. if I ask Siri to play The Office it will find it on Peacock and play it directly from there.

The large exception here is Netflix, apparently they don't hook in to the Apple TV API like the rest of these apps do (I imagine it's the same on the Google TV).

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#542

Post by mbreese »

chromanoid wrote: post #536
mbreese wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s almost like console gaming would be easier, where if you want to buy a digital game, there is only one marketplace to use [1]. Oh wait. [1] yes, you can also buy physical games for most systems, but that’s in its way out too. If this plays out as expected, this complaint is going to have a lot of collateral damage.

There is a difference between a video game console and a portable multi purpose device with such a reach. Judges should take this into account. With great power comes great responsibility.

Modern game consoles can do a lot... and have their own app stores. Microsoft would love for me to use my Xbox to stream Netflix.

I don’t think they are as far apart as you think. They are both walled gardens that are heavily controlled by their developers.

Not to mention — this all started with a game developer that wasn’t happy with the distribution of their game. Nevermind that they abide by the same rules and fees for Xbox, Playstation, and Nintendo.

This isn’t about Apple. It’s about all of them.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#543

Post by Dylan16807 »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #490
reader_mode wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh - eventually things work out for the best of the consumers most of the time - for eg. epic game store just gave a bunch of titles free no strings attached a while ago, EA store used to have free stuff as well. End of the day you have to have enough value to get people to inconvenience themselves - I'd rather that this value gets shelled out to users as enticement to install some app store than Apple capturing tha…

This is short-sighted. The App Store is good because it is closed and curated. That's a main driver of the product experience. Removing the App Store irrecoverably damages the iPhone - a curated, non-malware infested, high quality phone with a consistent experience. I have yet to see any argument how the App Store harms consumers. It helps developers make more money (Play Store revenue is half that of the App store's…

Even assuming the only reason App Store revenue is that high is because of the store itself, we shouldn't treat the policies as one indivisible work set in stone.

You can have a properly curated store with 10% fees, for example. And you can block malware without blocking alternative web browsers or game streaming apps.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#544

Post by LexGray »

iknowstuff wrote: post #388
dkonofalski wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may have but the rest of the world did so with a lot of hand-wringing and a boatload of viruses, toolbars, malware, and everything else. As someone who has worked in IT and in tech support, I get and agree with what Apple has done.

FYI, the iOS sandboxing model is the innovation behind the security of iOS. It is separate from the notion of having an app store. Apps would be just as restricted from accessing your data and modifying the OS as they are through their own store. So this argument is wrong but will be peddled by Apple for sure. PC operating systems had viruses because of the non-restrictive, unsandboxed access their APIs gave to every…

Part of the Apple sandboxing model is to run a check on binaries to make sure internal APIs are not being abused, or other shenanigans. I would not trust the Apple sandbox at all, especially with the privacy in place which prevents any sort of auditing of what people are doing to their devices.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#545

Post by katbyte »

dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

If its not on steam/ps4 i don't play it. if its not on the mac store or in homebrew i am very unlikely to install it and will seek an alternitive.

If it won't be on the ios apple store i won't install it.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#546

Post by katbyte »

BrianGragg wrote: post #214
SCHiM wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You install those yourself you know. I'd rather have a choice than not. I feel your pain in the sense that that I think user UX will take a hit, but I think that's less important than breaking the monopoly of the current app store. For example, I can't find apps with pornography or other types of things the high overlords at apple or Google have deemed inappropriate for me to have. That's bad. Apparently apps like Ma…

The problem is the choice is taken away from you though. Just like he said with the game market. If you want to play Game A, you go and download/install Game A's publishing app store. If you want to then play Game B, rinse and repeat. You will be forced to use so many different app stores and won't have a choice to NOT use their app store "IF" it progresses like it has on the desktop. No proof it will/won't either.

You could always just not play Game A?

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#547

Post by JakeTheAndroid »

chc wrote: post #304
nickysielicki wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not about the outcome, it’s about reasoning from first principles and going where ever that leads you, regardless of how much you dislike the outcome. Nobody has to buy an iPhone, iPad, or MacBook. Apple has the right to create the software ecosystem they want to create. Their success in mobile computing is arguably a direct result of their closed ecosystem.

It's true that nobody has to buy an iPhone, in that they can choose any of the one competing platform. "There's literally a single competitor" isn't a very strong argument against regulation, though.

I don't know that it's entirely fair to say there is literally a single competitor. While Android is a single platform, you're free to get it from a range of vendors that all add their own flavor to Android. Some are really locked down, some are root by default. So you actually have a range of competing platforms even if they are powered by only 2 OSes.

And in the case of both devices (Apple and Android) you can still flash your own "competing" OS on the hardware. It's far easier to do this on an Android device than an Apple one, but the hardware is separate from the software you're running. But there are multiple mobile OSes not named Android or iOS.

What qualifies as a competitor, and what responsibility does Apple or Android have at creating new competitors? What actions are Google or Apple taking to actively stomp out mobile based OSes? Didn't Mozilla give it a shot? Didn't Ubunutu put out a mobile version of their OS? The lack of competitor for OSes seems like an odd argument to make. They exist even if they don't have marketshare, and there is no requisite business structure behind an OS in order for it to be a competing software. There are options. They may not be the single most accessible, and they may not meet your needs, but they exist.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#548

Post by parasubvert »

neogodless wrote: post #487
jvzr wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is how life is as a PC gamer and it's.... actually good. Who cares if you need to open multiple stores? I do. I hate it with passion. Launchers have to be updated, games have to be updated; they all have different UX, work better or worse than the other. Let me have just Steam and regulate Valve so that they don't abuse their position, and I'll be fine thank you.

> just Steam and regulate Valve Welcome to the world where you can only use government approved software!

Worked for the telephone system for 75 years....

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#549

Post by katbyte »

AttakBanana wrote: post #531
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is short-sighted. The App Store is good because it is closed and curated. That's a main driver of the product experience. Removing the App Store irrecoverably damages the iPhone - a curated, non-malware infested, high quality phone with a consistent experience. I have yet to see any argument how the App Store harms consumers. It helps developers make more money (Play Store revenue is half that of the App store's…

Um, the harm is 30% more expensive apps. If devs can't avoid the cut, its only going to get passed down to the user.

how is it 30% more expensive apps when the play store, ps4 store, xbox store all take the same amount?

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#550

Post by katbyte »

criley2 wrote: post #521
BrianGragg wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the choice is taken away from you though. Just like he said with the game market. If you want to play Game A, you go and download/install Game A's publishing app store. If you want to then play Game B, rinse and repeat. You will be forced to use so many different app stores and won't have a choice to NOT use their app store "IF" it progresses like it has on the desktop. No proof it will/won't either.

>The problem is the choice is taken away from you though All Apple has to do is compromise on the 30% number. They've taken it to the extreme and demanded 30% of everything, 30% of subscriptions, 30% of every dollar. It's outrageous and developers who are perfectly capable of either self-hosting or finding a solution for cheaper than 30% OF ALL REVENUE deserve to keep the 25% of that revenue that is pure profit to Ap…

how is the app store any different them the play/ps4/xbox store which also take 30% cut?
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