Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

UK to launch taxpayer-funded high-risk tech research agency exempt from FOI

thetimes.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 210 posts

Re: UK to launch taxpayer-funded high-risk tech research agency exempt from FOI

#111

Post by grey-area »

dalbasal wrote: post #92
grey-area wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those doubting the above, here is an example from the recent past of corruption from the Prime Minister, paying his lover with public funds: https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/31/10000-grant-given-boris-johns...

The problem with this line of argument is that it applies to anything and everything done under the current conservative banner. IE, Torrie/Boris corruption is the only topic. Whether it's a British DARPA, new sewage plant, or change to the tax code, the only thing to say is " They're corrupt. This is just another pilfering. " I'm sympathetic to the focus on corruption. Corruption is bad. That said, I don't think the…

I think the problem people have is the FOI exception. There is no good reason for this, save corruption and wasting public funds. Other agencies are subject to FOI requests and public oversight, why should this one be different?

So the objection is to that specific clause and based on very real facts about recent and ongoing corruption. Priti Patel is another example and there is a very long list if you want one of abuse of public office from the current cabinet, this is not an abstract concern or one without foundation.

Nobody on this thread has said that everything the Conservatives do is bad, just that they are proven to be corrupt and therefore a FOI exception is a bad idea in this case.

Re: UK to launch taxpayer-funded high-risk tech research agency exempt from FOI

#112

Post by dominotw »

arethuza wrote: post #104
Traster wrote: post #54

It's absolutely hilarious to watch a Prime Minister, who has previously given £100k in Tech funding to his mistress, now establishing an even bigger tech fund without the FOIA requirements so that he can... get away with giving £100k in Tech funding to his mistresses in the future I guess?

Maybe it will be used to fund new tunnelling and/or bridge technologies - the current government seems surprisingly keen on connecting NI to Scotland....

> fund new tunnelling

is this supposed to be a double entendre ? I don't see how this follows from the parent comment.

Re: UK to launch taxpayer-funded high-risk tech research agency exempt from FOI

#113

Post by lbriner »

dalbasal wrote: post #58

OK so the British HNers commenting seem to be unimpressed. :) Leaving this specific agency/project aside, what would be the right way to do this? How do we do public investment in high risk projects well?

A great book I read called Bad Buying by Peter Smith covers most of the issue. If you want success, you need to ask the right questions, define success criteria, contract properly etc.

On the one hand it is good that they recognise that big wins often involve big risks. On the other hand, it is important that they decide how to tell the difference between great potential and milking the cash cow.

As long as they have an independent ethics group who can make sure nothing untowards happens, it might be OK!

Re: UK to launch taxpayer-funded high-risk tech research agency exempt from FOI

#114

Post by 908B64B197 »

hardlianotion wrote: post #107
908B64B197 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even if you have a government dept. of 10x geniuses In Government? I chuckled. > it will just become another grant vehicle for academics in the publish-or-perish regime I can already see the selection committee, all from non-technical backgrounds, getting clear instructions on who to fund and who to reject based on the demographics the party wants to appeal to and existing donors.

That's not how current government funding for projects currently works - why is this so fundamentally different?

This one is exempt from FOI.

So the public will never know why a project was selected over another. Or why it failed, or what happened to the money.

Re: UK to launch taxpayer-funded high-risk tech research agency exempt from FOI

#115

Post by lbriner »

jack_riminton wrote: post #44
nivenkos wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a shocking number of people high up in UK tech influence circles who got there solely by networking, holding events and being on the peripheries of successful startups Like Boris Johnson's lover.

Ah yes, she set up a co-working space, held some events and launched (although presumably not heavily involved) in launching a White Hat consultancy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Arcuri Similar to Rohan Silva who advised Cameron; set up a co-working space, is on many boards, speaks at a lot of events

Everyone is impressive to those who are less impressive!

Re: UK to launch taxpayer-funded high-risk tech research agency exempt from FOI

#116

Post by emptyfile »

dominotw wrote: post #112
arethuza wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it will be used to fund new tunnelling and/or bridge technologies - the current government seems surprisingly keen on connecting NI to Scotland....

> fund new tunnelling is this supposed to be a double entendre ? I don't see how this follows from the parent comment.

The comment is making fun of a proposal Boris Johnson once made about building a bridge from Scotland to Northern Ireland, which is considered borderline physically impossible as far as I understand.

Re: UK to launch taxpayer-funded high-risk tech research agency exempt from FOI

#117

Post by lbriner »

lordnacho wrote: post #88
dageshi wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter. Genuinely, the only thing that mattered was working, safe vaccines as quickly as possible. Whatever government paid is absolute peanuts compared to the costs associated with locking down economies let alone the lives potentially saved. Covid19 was and is a crisis, you may well have a point in terms of other initiatives in this space, but with covid all that mattered was finding a solution as quickl…

> all that mattered was finding a solution as quickly as possible What's to stop someone spending a bunch of money on a dead-end project that benefits them and no-one else, and then saying "hey, it's risky, bummer we couldn't make a vaccine"? We can be generous to make sure it gets done by someone, but we should also make sure that people actually try. The current UK government has a lot of stories about procurement,…

What stops it is 1) Not awarding money to people who might be able to do it, only to those who can demonstrate that they can do it 2) Caveating the bulk of the payment to the successful production.

In most cases, the money was for a pre-order of vaccines afaik and if they don't produce, they don't get paid.

PPE contracts was another cock-up all together!

Re: UK to launch taxpayer-funded high-risk tech research agency exempt from FOI

#118

Post by jariel »

grey-area wrote: post #111
dalbasal wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this line of argument is that it applies to anything and everything done under the current conservative banner. IE, Torrie/Boris corruption is the only topic. Whether it's a British DARPA, new sewage plant, or change to the tax code, the only thing to say is " They're corrupt. This is just another pilfering. " I'm sympathetic to the focus on corruption. Corruption is bad. That said, I don't think the…

I think the problem people have is the FOI exception. There is no good reason for this, save corruption and wasting public funds. Other agencies are subject to FOI requests and public oversight, why should this one be different? So the objection is to that specific clause and based on very real facts about recent and ongoing corruption. Priti Patel is another example and there is a very long list if you want one of a…

"There is no good reason for this, "

No, there are a ton of things the US et. al. do in secret, it's normal.

There needs to be oversight, public is better, but an independent council can work.

But yes, there's going to be a problem with graft.

Re: UK to launch taxpayer-funded high-risk tech research agency exempt from FOI

#119

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

arethuza wrote: post #104
Traster wrote: post #54

It's absolutely hilarious to watch a Prime Minister, who has previously given £100k in Tech funding to his mistress, now establishing an even bigger tech fund without the FOIA requirements so that he can... get away with giving £100k in Tech funding to his mistresses in the future I guess?

Maybe it will be used to fund new tunnelling and/or bridge technologies - the current government seems surprisingly keen on connecting NI to Scotland....

That’s a very different kind of bridge-or-tunnel tho.

Re: UK to launch taxpayer-funded high-risk tech research agency exempt from FOI

#120

Post by jack_riminton »

nivenkos wrote: post #37
jack_riminton wrote: post #30

If its our answer to DARPA then good. I only hope the money will be disbursed in ways similar to the DARPA challenges and not in the usual chronyist way of the UK There's a shocking number of people high up in UK tech influence circles who got there solely by networking, holding events and being on the peripheries of successful startups

> There's a shocking number of people high up in UK tech influence circles who got there solely by networking, holding events and being on the peripheries of successful startups Like Boris Johnson's lover.

Oh yes I also forgot to add sexual favours to the key criteria!
Post reply on HN